Reserves integration and bounty vs pension

dunkers

War Hero
So the current buzzword in the RNR is "integration"... moving the reserves closer to the regular navy. It has occurred to me that this integration might eventually have an effect on the employment status of RNR personnel.

As I understand it, RNRs are technically regarded as casual labour - which allows us to turn up on drill nights, or not turn up, as we like; it also means we are, entirely as a perk, paid an annual bounty instead of a pension... because we have no firm "job" as it were for the basis of a pension. I am happy with this situation.

However! since the drive is currently to make the RN and RNR seamless, could it ever happen that our terms of service will change, to make us not "casual labour" but permanently employed somehow? (Like by compulsory attendance at X many weekends per year or face disciplinary action.) This change would depend on what the projected use for the RNR is. That is, if it will remain in its current form, or become a "part time" navy where you can switch between full and part time - in which case all personnel would need to be treated the same.

Another aspect if that happens is what would happen to bounty? Would you like it to be replaced with a pension? Personally I wouldn't, but if we're moving ever closer to a full/part time RN where all personnel (regular or reserve) would have to be on the same terms of service - maybe it is inevitable? o_O

Any thoughts on the above??
 

Karma

War Hero
I think it's worth bearing mind the other element of this equation, employers.

I'm not sure about yours, but my firm (boutique consultancy) is pretty supportive of my reserves commitment but don't consider it under the additional employment in the same way as other potentials which require a whole consent process round about it.

I'll acknowledge that being an ex regular probably makes that easier, and I'm providing very similar services to my specialisation over the last ten years or so, albeit to a completely different client base.

Clearly it depends on branch but in some cases the part time employee model doesn't match well with our mainstream existence.

Personally I'm also quite happy with the current model; I give time when it suits and my employers are sensitive to times when I might be called on to do short jobs. The pay funds the odd nice meal out, because it can't be planned for. Psychologically I think that's probably more motivational than a more rigorous reward mechanism.
 
Karma said:
boutique consultancy...

Completely off topic but you are a useful person to know! Someone who is a consultant for boutiques. Do you get a discuount? Are you big on fashion?

As to Dunkers original point, I think you are right, I would not wish to be a part time employee of the RN, they cannot get the terms and conditions right for the full timers, what do you think they would do for us?
 
It would certainly appear the purpose of the bounty has changed over the years, in my time in the RNR, the bounty was in part to cover the unpaid time at drill nights, and in my days many did two nights a week for much of the year, and a bonus for managing to tick all the boxes in showing your committment. I think to suggest today it is in place of a pension, especially when there is the obligation for periodic deployment which was not there in my day seems to be moving the goal posts.

It would seem reasonable for, in the present climate, that subject to the entitlement exceeding a reasonable level that the RNR get a pension based pro rata with the RN pension on the number of days actually served. This would probably mean nothing for the person who misses bounty regularly but something significant for the person who has served a good number of years and managed regular weweekends, annual training and the occasional deployment, which would to me seem fair
 

Karma

War Hero
rosinacarley said:
Completely off topic but you are a useful person to know! Someone who is a consultant for boutiques. Do you get a discuount?

Five minutes, quicker than I anticipated :)

With my clients, the last thing I want is to be a customer of them, never mind getting a discount!


Are you big on fashion?

Depends how you feel about business formal, all the time. The dress code is much the same as it was as a GL Orficer.....
 
Karma said:
Maxi_77 said:
Karma said:
rosinacarley said:
Are you big on fashion?

Depends how you feel about business formal, all the time. The dress code is much the same as it was as a GL Orficer.....

It will wear off in time, took me about 25 years

Well the firms dress code is formal, I might manage to get away from all my suits being blue in a while though.

It took me a while to get away from stiff collars for being extra formal. Mind you I still have not managed to relax into jeans of dress down Friday, but do feal I have made progress when the wife suggest perhaps I could dress up a bit for something. And I was a submariner.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Back on track (sorry)

But the pension issue for Reserves has already been taken up with gusto by the Final Examining Medical Officers, that conduct medical examination once or twice a week in the AFCO's for a few hours.

The argument being that as they are technically employed by the MOD, then they should be entitled to a bit of pension too. The figures involved would be fairly minimal, when you consider the amount of pension I get after 22 years in full time employment compared to a couple of hours a week over a much shorter timescale.

Using ball-park figures I'd suggest the RNR would be financially better off keeping the bounty as if the pension were calculated on the same terms as a regular pension, assuming 40+ hours per week over 20 odd years giving about £600 per month pre-tax pension, then a Reservist earning say 10% of that would get arount £720 before tax per year. Remember pensions are taxable- are bounties?
 

dunkers

War Hero
... and I bet all your socks are black, even now.

But anyway.

Here's a bright idea... put the "new" AWFP (former GSSR) branch under the control of the RN Warfare Branch so it becomes a warfare specialist role, ie WS(AWFP). In other words give the warfare branch a reserve specialisation. Have every AWFP dude trained in another WS role eg AWW, AWT etc. And hey presto, you have a pool of trained ops room personnell you can send off on ships with gapped billets, eg for the duration of a particular deployment. This would also open the way for regulars to be trained in AWFP and step down to an RNR committment if the Service could allow it (and return to their regular role later).

Therefore, at a stroke, achieving an integrated regular and reserve force.

Now doesn't that make sense :lol:

Ninja_Stoker said:
Remember pensions are taxable- are bounties?

No; they are tax free. Indeed the bounty is more attractive for a reservist than a pension but I wonder if they will eventually kill it off.
 
Ninja_Stoker said:
Back on track (sorry)

But the pension issue for Reserves has already been taken up with gusto by the Final Examining Medical Officers, that conduct medical examination once or twice a week in the AFCO's for a few hours.

The argument being that as they are technically employed by the MOD, then they should be entitled to a bit of pension too. The figures involved would be fairly minimal, when you consider the amount of pension I get after 22 years in full time employment compared to a couple of hours a week over a much shorter timescale.

Using ball-park figures I'd suggest the RNR would be financially better off keeping the bounty as if the pension were calculated on the same terms as a regular pension, assuming 40+ hours per week over 20 odd years giving about £600 per month pre-tax pension, then a Reservist earning say 10% of that would get arount £720 before tax per year. Remember pensions are taxable- are bounties?

I certainly do not believe the bounty should be swapped for a pension, it was never intended to be a substitute for a pension when introduced so why make it one now, that is just the bean counters wriggling. As for only racking up say £720 a year, many would find that a worthwhile extra so don't knock it especially as you would hope to pick that up for say 20+ years
 
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