Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Remuneration: Service personnel vs Police

lsadirty

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
It is with utter contempt and disgust that we are now told that the same MP's who refused to be bound by the arbitration process (re: Police Pay negotiations) now want to award themselves a 10% increase over the next three years bringing their average salary to £67,000.

It must be really tough sitting in a nice warm office without the dangers of working shifts, getting assaulted, stabbed, shot at, murdered etc, etc.

"But don't worry, we will still screw you whatever which way we can, next year if you are lucky, we might give you a 2% rise, and, we will go to arbitration and draw it out for a few months so in effect we can then refuse to back date your pay and you will only get 1.5%"

See where this is going.....?

What a complete bunch of *******!

When you think about what is a fair rate of pay for police just think about what MP's get paid!

Annual MP Pay: £60,675
Housing Allowance over £23,083: TAX FREE
London Supplement: £2812
Car Mileage: 40p (for first 10000 miles) 25p (after 10000)
Bike Allowance: (per mile) 20p

PLUS THE BEST PENSION IN THE COUNTRY!!!

:evil:

As a lot of these Tosser's will be looking for new jobs after the next (whenever) election, they'll vote it in to bump their "final salary" pensions.
Lower than whaleshite, the lot of them !!
 
sgtpepperband said:
It is with utter contempt and disgust that we are now told that the same MP's who refused to be bound by the arbitration process (re: Police Pay negotiations) now want to award themselves a 10% increase over the next three years bringing their average salary to £67,000.

It must be really tough sitting in a nice warm office without the dangers of working shifts, getting assaulted, stabbed, shot at, murdered etc, etc.

"But don't worry, we will still screw you whatever which way we can, next year if you are lucky, we might give you a 2% rise, and, we will go to arbitration and draw it out for a few months so in effect we can then refuse to back date your pay and you will only get 1.5%"

See where this is going.....?

What a complete bunch of *******!

When you think about what is a fair rate of pay for police just think about what MP's get paid!

Annual MP Pay: £60,675
Housing Allowance over £23,083: TAX FREE
London Supplement: £2812
Car Mileage: 40p (for first 10000 miles) 25p (after 10000)
Bike Allowance: (per mile) 20p

PLUS THE BEST PENSION IN THE COUNTRY!!!

:evil:

Note, they pay themselves £2,812 London Supplement whilst paying their staff a London supplement of £1,760.

The Additional Costs Allowance (ACA)(alias the Housing Allowance) is only paid to those who live outside London, and is in lieu of the London Supplement. The ACA is any amount up to £23,083.

Their pension is generous, but like the police, they contribute around 10% of their salary into it, and like the police, can retire on a full pension after around 26 years (30 for the police).

Full details in The Green Book....
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
When God was creating police officers, he was into his sixth day of overtime when an angel appeared and said, "You're doing a lot of fiddling around on this one."

And the Lord said, "Have you read the spec on this order? A police officer has to be able to run for miles through alleys in the dark, scale walls, enter homes the health inspector wouldn't touch, and not wrinkle his uniform.

"He has to be able to sit in an undercover car all day on a stakeout, cover a homicide scene that night, canvass the neighborhood for witnesses, and testify in court the next day.

"He has to be in top physical condition at all times, running on coffee and half-eaten meals. And he has to have six pairs of hands."

The angel shook her head slowly and said, "Six pairs of hands... no way."

"It's not the hands that are causing me problems," said the Lord, "it's the three pairs of eyes an officer has to have."

"That's on the standard model?" asked the angel.

The Lord nodded. One pair that sees through a bulge in a pocket before he asks, "May I see what's in there, sir?" (When he already knows and wishes he'd taken that accounting job.) "Another pair here in the side of his head for his partners' safety. And another pair of eyes here in front that can look reassuringly at a bleeding victim and say, 'You'll be all right ma'am, when he knows it isn't so."

"Lord," said the angel, touching his sleeve, "rest and work on this tomorrow."

"I can't," said the Lord, "I already have a model that can talk a 250 pound drunk into a patrol car without incident and feed a family of five on a civil service paycheck."

The angel circled the model of the peace officer very slowly, "Can it think?" she asked.

"You bet," said the Lord. "It can tell you the elements of a hundred crimes; recite criminal law in its sleep; detain, investigate, search, and arrest a gang member on the street in less time than it takes five learned judges to debate the legality of the stop... and still it keeps its sense of humour.

This officer also has phenomenal personal control. He can deal with crime scenes painted in hell, coax a confession from a child abuser, comfort a murder victim's family, and then read in the daily paper how law enforcement isn't sensitive to the rights of criminal suspects."

Finally, the angel bent over and ran her finger across the cheek of the peace officer. "There's a leak," she pronounced. "I told you that you were trying to put too much into this model."

"That's not a leak," said the lord, "it's a tear."

"What's the tear for?" asked the angel.

"It's for bottled-up emotions, for fallen comrades, for commitment to that funny piece of cloth called the British flag, for justice."

"You're a genius," said the angel.

The Lord looked somber. "I didn't put it there," he said.

8O
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
brendan498 said:
i have no respect for the police they say they want fair pay for fair work,well what a cushy number they have...

and thewy have to remember they serve the public not the reverse

Oh yeah - that will be this sort of cushy number then I suppose and I guess you will find some way to argue they were not serving the public as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7160944.stm

RIP buddy.


––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––


Well if the Police would grow up in this country and start acting like a professional Police service, not uniformed social workers it wouldn't have happened, would it?

Only our Bobbies on the beat seem to feel the need to dress up like SAS wannabees yet carry nothing more offensive than a truncheon.
 
Slick

We aren't all tooled up because it should not be needed.

If the public we are supposed to protect and serve did not commit crime, take drugs, fail to control their alcohol consumption and started to behave in an orderly and appopriate manner, respect the laws that the country have deemed fit to enact and generally not gob off and accept that the law applies to all people then the crime rate, prison population and need for police would all decrease.

I would truly love to know all the dealings you have had with the police to try to understand your obvious resentment and total disregard for the work we do - you mention us not being social workers - we have to be because there aren't enough of those either - we also have to be mental health workers, prison officers, immigration officials, Intelligence officers and much more.

What do you want out of the police - all tooled up like Officer Tackleberry with an attitude from hell ? Shoot first and ask questions later ? Performance related pay so we all book up more motorists because our pay would depend on it?

The public should get the police they deserve and on the whole they do - they may not get the service they deserve because the goverrnment see fit not to provide sufficient funds to employ enough police officers to maintain law and order - they think it can be achieve with PCSOs etc. but that's a different matter.

I hope and pray that you NEVER need the services of the police because you get stabbed by a drunken, drugged, mentally disordered schizophrenic who you stumble across - or would you not want our help because we may perform advanced first aid or CPR on you (paramedics job?) and then have to be a social worker and go and tell you family of your tragic end. We may even investigate the circumstances that lead to your tragic death, risking our own lives in arresting the drunken, drugged and mentally disordered offender. Maybe you could be involved in a serious injury Road Traffic Collision one day when you are innocently knocked over by someone not committing a real crime, just someone who was speeding a bit on a day and in an area where there was no speed check being carried out. Perhaps then you may then appreciate what we do and why we need to do it.

Oh and with regard to my deceased colleague - was it justified that he should die because he was directed to deal with a domestic incident in someones home in this country, not sent to somewhere hot and sunny with a gun to try and protect someone else in another country?
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Firstly, thank you for your concern for my safety, but my safety is not the legal responsibility of the Police as was recentlley proven in Court…

KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
I hope and pray that you NEVER need the services of the police because you get stabbed by a drunken, drugged, mentally disordered schizophrenic who you stumble across

Well, as I'm 100% certain the Police will not be there to protect me in that situation I make damn sure I'll have more than just harsh words to defend myself with if that situation ever arose.

You see, that's the fundemental problem the Police face. As you become less effective and/or willing to defend the general public, not unreasonably, the general public starts to retake responsibility for their own self defence.

KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
you mention us not being social workers - we have to be because there aren't enough of those either - we also have to be mental health workers, prison officers, immigration officials, Intelligence officers and much more.

I don't want you doing that either… I pay my taxes to have you lot pounding the beat in my behalf protecting me from, and arresting, bad guys.



KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
Slick

We aren't all tooled up because it should not be needed.


I rest my case… we shouldn't 'need too' so we pretend we don't need too.

KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
If the public we are supposed to protect and serve did not commit crime, take drugs, fail to control their alcohol consumption and started to behave in an orderly and appopriate manner, respect the laws that the country have deemed fit to enact and generally not gob off and accept that the law applies to all people then the crime rate, prison population and need for police would all decrease.

ANother case in point… wishing crime away does not make it go away. The world is full of 'bad' people.

Oddly enough, being 'gobbed off' at seems to a be a major problem for the British Police, you don't tend to see people 'gobbing off' German, Swiss or Italian cops in my expeience.


FWIW, it's the UK Police attitude to firearms that worries me. You're institutionally terrified of them, you don't regard them as a 'tool' to help you do your job, their seen as some sort of über tactic of last resort and that seriously clouds the views of the end users. I've seen to many 'armed' Police Officers who are so clearly uncomfortable when they are carrying the body language is 'wrong'… wired and tense.

A firearm is just a tool, I've been stopped at a washed out road in Switzerland by Herr Polizei firing a shot in the air to get my attention, no biggy, he was just using it as a means of making a loud noise as I was taking more interest in wading through the water than taking notice of him. Here that would have made national news and the Officer suspended while the IPCA looked into it.

And your 100% wrong, I do support the Police on the beat, it's the 'Institution' I object too, and institution that doesn't send an Officer to my house to investigate the 2nd attempted burglary and when I complain tells me that I'll just have to accept being burgled is quote…"An occupational hazard of life in England"…

Personally, I'd have no problem with anyone who assaults an Officer with a weapons getting a 9mm for his pains. After a few applications of the medicine the Chavtastic classes would moderate their behaviour.

Oh, and do spare me the 'If we armed all the Police all the villians would carry guns' argument… Bogus claim.

Even closer to home, let alone Europe, all the villians in NI don't carry guns, but oddly enough, a lot of villians in Britain do…

Could that be because pulling a home made mickey mouse shooter that you've no training with on a PSNI Officer who carries a Glock and is a good shot with it would be a career shortening move?

What would you do if you did a vehicle stop and someone poked a pistol in your face?
 
Slick,

There is so much you have said that I totally agree with - especially with some cops carrying firearms. I wouldn't trust a lot of cops with a baton let alone a gun. You're also correct that if an officer were to let off a round - even a ND - unless in training there would probably be an IPCC (Incompetent Pricks & Callous Cnuts) investigation because the police are scared of their own sh!t.

I hope you complained at being told that burglary is an occupational hazard of living in the UK - it's pathetic and inappropriate comments like that which cause resentment - was this by some faceless civvy on the end of a phone - if so it's no surprise when half of the civvies who work for us haven't a feckin clue what policing is about and couldn't give a sh!t about the service they provide - but is's plod that gets it in the neck, hence your understandable resentment.

And if someone did point a pistol in my face, I'd probably sh!t my pants and hope the [email protected] doesn't pull the trigger. My 18" baton and Pava spray aren't much of a match for 9mm of lead at close range.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:
Slick,

There is so much you have said that I totally agree with - especially with some cops carrying firearms. I wouldn't trust a lot of cops with a baton let alone a gun. You're also correct that if an officer were to let off a round - even a ND - unless in training there would probably be an IPCC (Incompetent Pricks & Callous Cnuts) investigation because the police are scared of their own sh!t.

I hope you complained at being told that burglary is an occupational hazard of living in the UK - it's pathetic and inappropriate comments like that which cause resentment - was this by some faceless civvy on the end of a phone - if so it's no surprise when half of the civvies who work for us haven't a feckin clue what policing is about and couldn't give a sh!t about the service they provide - but is's plod that gets it in the neck, hence your understandable resentment.

And if someone did point a pistol in my face, I'd probably sh!t my pants and hope the [email protected] doesn't pull the trigger. My 18" baton and Pava spray aren't much of a match for 9mm of lead at close range.


There ya go, you see, we do sing from much the same hymn sheet.

The prat who told me it's just a fact of life? Yep, liason numpty. I did complain and recieved a latter telling me about 'prioritizing resources'… 'perceptions'…'proactive measures' and all the usual marketing Buzz-speak. Translated it came across as, not enough Police, fit a burglar alarm to scare them away.


Well, the issue of increasing instances deadly force been used against Officers WILL have to be addressed eventually, it's just a case of how many Officers have to be stabbed, shot or run over before the Powers That Be decide to tackle the issue.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Hmm, the only thing we should take from that story is:

A spokesman for Avon and Somerset Police confirmed the force is investigating an alleged assault on a 15- year-old boy.

The Police have an obligation to investigate all reports. As a result of their enquiries the historical facts surrounding the incident may come to light, at which point the Police may/may not choose to proceed. It is apparent that Miss Lake has prevously voiced her anger at the anti-social behaviour of the local kids in the area but it is not clear that the youngsters she engaged with were the ones responsible for the vandalism she had complained about. Having said that, her comment clearly reveals a confession "I lost my temper in complete frustration after two years of patiently trying to get something done and immediately the police are after me. It's ridiculous.

"I did not go up to these boys intending to hit anyone but they when they started shouting abuse at me and my husband, Peter, who is recovering from cancer, I just snapped."


I have investigated many cases, some of which do not necessarily result in charges or conviction. So before this turns into another assassination of Police incompetence, let's see what transpires.

I am not condoning what these youngsters have done, but by that rationale I cannot condone what the suspect has done either. But blaming the Police at this time is not the issue.
 
Interesting story - but she's quite right - they know their rights, one of which is that if you are assaulted then you can report the matter to the police who should investigate the matter.

Teachers, parents and the old bill used to be able to deal with matters by cuffing someone round the ear'ole - it happened to me as a kid where the local bobby clipped me round the ear so I went home and told my parents and my Dad did the same too. Try it these days and it's not the person who's done the wrong in the first place you will see in the dock, it will be the Teacher, parent or copper.

SPB has raised one of the most valid points though - we are obliged to investigate ALL reports (most of which happens over the phone) - that's why the likes of Slick's burglary wasn't dealt with by a visit from a copper but by a civvy over the phone; we simply don't have the resources to deal with the massive increase in crime because we are forced to prioritise on government targets and sh!te.

If we could go back to the days of telling people "Tough sh!t young lad - if you weren't gobbing off at the lady she wouldn't have slapped you round the face" we would be able to deal with the more serious stuff, such as Slick's burglary. Instead of this we end up dealing with sh!t like this - ludicrous or what !!!

Interesting comment from the A&S Inspector about "Neighbourhood Policing" - that normally means a bunch of PCSOs, not REAL Police officers who have more powers to deal with these little, misunderstood, innocent children !

As for the disclosure what happened 30 yrs ago, "The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history" (I don't know who this quote should be credited to but it's bloody spot on.)
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
The suspect also chose to engage with these individuals; was she in any imminent or immediate danger? No. Did she remove the spray paint cans to prevent the commission of an offence? No. She slapped a child.

You see, when you remove the emotion and rhetoric from the equation, the law is quite simple. It must be, if I can understand it! 8O :lol:
 

Jimmy_Green

War Hero
I don't blame her for one moment for doing what she did.

Half the problem stems from the mixed messages we receive.
On one hand we are told that we should take more responsibility for our communities and stand up against anti-social behaviour, and then we are told to leave things to the police.

The police have a responsibility to investigate any complaint or breach of the law, whoever the alleged victims or perpetrators are. (It's called impartiality).

If there is a case then it's put before the CPS who decide whether it's in the public interest to prosecute, (which IMHO is where it all falls down) and then to the courts who decide on the sentence if the defendant is found guilty, not forgetting the severe limitations re sentencing that a magistrates court is under.

I don't think plod are ALLOWED to apply any CDF anymore.

I'm sure KLNA will put me right if anything I have stated is factually incorrect.
 
You're pretty much spot-on Jimmy, as always, but did you know that as a Custody Sergeant I am only allowed to make a decision to charge a suspect on very few occasions.

The CPS MUST decide if a suspect is to be charged for most offences - now call me synical but when they have (government) targets to achieve would I be naive to think they only want cases to go to court where they are almost guaranteed to get an admission and conviction -it makes them hit their performance targets. What this does is make them judge, jury and executioner - it used to be that the Custody Sgt would decide on charge and then the CPS would prosecute, thus giving the magistrates and juries the power to decide who is or is not guilty and in need of sentencing but they were failing t meet the government targets, so what did the government do, change the goalposts to ensure they hit their tagets - how strange !

What is CDF by the way?
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
CDF is an underused commodity, but is applied more often than not by Police Officers. For example, in the circumstances described an Officer may have chosen to approach the suspect/complainant explained:

To woman: "He said you hit him. Why?" [Gets verbal account of vandalism/anti-social or disorderly behaviour, etc.]
To boy: "She said you were vandalising the memorial. Why?" [Gets verbal account of how crap his life is/his mates made him do it, etc.]

PC then explains to both parties that they are both at fault and should go home and think about the consequences of their actions, and the possibility of further criminal proceedings against thmselves if they maintain their allegation against the other party. Most people choose to accept this 'advice' and go home with a proverbial tail between their legs.

However, some do not listen to the advice, and maintain the allegation. And will also 'exercise their rights' to make a formal complaint about the Police Officers' handing of the incident, claiming that he failed to take their statement of complaint at the time, knowing full well that the IPCC would act on this account, which is likely to result in a PC being disciplined for professional misconduct. And that is why Officers are often too scared to use this avenue of action: not through ambivalence towards the amount of work it would generate, but the worry that they might lose their job for using 'CDF' in the first place!

8O :oops:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
MoD_RSS National Crime Agency Remuneration and Review Body remit: 2021 to 2022 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Review Body on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration remit letter: 2021 to 2022 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Remit letter to the Police Remuneration Review Body: 2021 to 2022 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New members appointed to the National Crime Agency Remuneration Review Bodies MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Remit letter for Police Remuneration Review Body 2020 Northern Ireland pay round MoD News 0
MoD_RSS National Crime Agency Remuneration and Review Body remit 2020 to 2021 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Remit letter to the Police Remuneration Review Body: 2020 to 2021 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Review Body on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration remit letter: 2020 to 2021 MoD News 0
T Special Boat Squadron - remuneration The Corps 0
MoD_RSS Issue with Companies House email reminder service now resolved MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Appointment of Civil Service Commissioner for Northern Ireland. MoD News 0
MoD_RSS HM The Queen has appointed Nick Hurd, Jacquie Nnochiri and Deborah Tavana as Board Members of the National Citizen Service Trust MoD News 0
MoD_RSS HMRC appoints new Director General for customer service MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Service Complaints Ombudsman Appointment announcement MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New curriculum and campus to improve Civil Service skills and expertise MoD News 0
N Help with dads naval service. History 1
MoD_RSS IT maintenance disrupts IPO service to search and classify trade mark goods and services MoD News 0
MoD_RSS IPO new search UK trade mark classes service now available MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Extraordinary public service at centre of New Year Honours List 2021 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Service update - CICA festive opening hours MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New trade barriers service launched to help British businesses export internationally MoD News 0
MoD_RSS British Embassy in Santiago receives Civil Service Award MoD News 0
C Ww1 service record History 0
MoD_RSS Insolvency Service work recognised at Turnaround, Restructuring and Insolvency Awards MoD News 0
M Looking to Join (2nd time) - from Prison Service Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 11
N Locating a service number History 7
mick1199 Runs ashore and the submarine service Submariners 37
MoD_RSS UKHO announces the release of the Seabed Mapping Service MoD News 0
MoD_RSS 10 new satellites to be built in Glasgow in next three years as part of new innovative constellation service MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Fish Export Service trial period MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Over 7,000 businesses register for Trader Support Service MoD News 0
Lemacque Service Record Help History 42
MoD_RSS Malaysia: Remembrance Sunday memorial service goes virtual MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Remembrance Sunday service held online to honour the fallen MoD News 0
MoD_RSS HMCTS online event, 4 Nov 2020: An update on the digital family public law service MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Fire and Rescue Service Boats report published MoD News 0
MoD_RSS The Insolvency Service newsletter: Autumn 2020 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS IPO launches trade mark pre-apply service MoD News 0
M what does the x mean in service number Nearest & Dearest 27
MoD_RSS Disabled people to benefit from better journeys thanks to service station funding MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Next steps for future tri-service recruiting programme revealed MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Disclosure and Barring Service makes senior appointments MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Chief Constable commends officers and rewards long service MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Making the Civil Service a Great Place to Work for Veterans MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Civil Service starts guaranteed interview scheme for veterans MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New space service to revolutionise photography at sporting events MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Lord Chancellor’s Speech: Opening of the Legal Year Service MoD News 0
soleil RN: "Cardigan Bay Chef Nears 50 Years' Service In The RFA" RFA 2
MoD_RSS New digital service to improve home energy performance MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Online duplicate log book service launched MoD News 0
Similar threads


















































Latest Threads

New Posts

Top