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Remuneration: Service personnel vs Police

There is a very good letter in today's Times (12 Dec 07, p16: last letter) by Lt.Col.Richard Bartle (Ret'd) from the BAFF available via the link below.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/global/article3036284.ece

I am rather bemused that the police seem to think that because their job may be dangerous (for the minority in the front line) their pay should be take precidence over other public sector employees, including service personnel whose lives are in more immediate peril. I think they should be allowed to strike. That way many people might discover that it makes little diference to their lives (as they are not protected already) and apply political pressure for efficiency savings in the police force itself. It does seem paradoxical, after all, that as police numbers have risen, we see fewer of them patrolling the streets and criminal prosecutions on the wane for crimes which householders think are important, such as burgulary. Roll on contracting-out (where the police are unwilling on "conscience" grounds to offer a proper service: eg to racial minorities and gays), the local pay conditions that apply to other public sector staff and the full implimentation of the Sheehy Report!

End of rant!

Head down awaiting incoming! EEK! o_O
 
Just been listening to some Police bird dripping on the radio and calling for the Home seceretary to resign....."hello, welcome to the real world"......

It made me laugh to think the police are finally waking up to the fact that the Govt. are a bunch of thieves, I'd love to see them strike, how I'd laugh if a volunteer force of ex welsh miners or squaddies or even jock poll tax protestors where drafted in to "marshal" there protest marches.

If the Police did strike they'd soon realise the warmth and love felt for them through out the land. :laughing8:
 
Contributor Mode

The point is not only have the Police given up the right to strike also they are subject to the Police Discipline Act and are exempted from most of the Health and Safety Regs. Employment Acts. Conditions oat Work Place Regs etc. They also unlike most and certainly Servicemen pay 11% of their gross salary to the Pension Scheme.

In exchange to them given up all their rights of protection it was agreed that their pay was settled by a board appointed by the Goverment. The pay year date starts on 1st Sept. The Panel awared a 2.5% pay rise for the year 2007/2008 the Goverment said yes you will get that but we will only pay it from next pay day making it a 1.9% pay rise.

Now I will agree that Senior Police Officers have lost the plot and the beat copper is not doing what the public want but that is not PC Plods fault. You must remember that Plod lives 24/7 in the community that is being policed and most work shift patterns 24/7/12 for up to 30 years not a six month deployment then 12 to 18 months training with a 4 day week ETC.

The Labour Goverment did the same in 1977 when this whole system pay by arbitration was set up in exactly the same circumstances.

END OF RANT

Nutty
 
PS what we did in 77/78 was work to rule, that means all the rules so it is not easy. As a CID Officer I would leave the Station to go to a Robbery Victim but parked outside the Police Station was Joe Soaps car on double yellow lines while he sought directions. I would have normally walked on but no I am a Police Officer first and a person is breaking the law Nicked and off to court no fixed penalty tickets for Policemen in them days. This of course would happen to every law breaker I met on my way to the robbery victim. In fact often I failed to reach the vcictim and the process wouls start the next day. Mean while the Court Process section was swamped with paper work for petty offences. Now if that what you want stick up for Brooooon and his cohorts

NUtty
 
Nutty said:
Contributor Mode

The point is not only have the Police given up the right to strike also they are subject to the Police Discipline Act and are exempted from most of the Health and Safety Regs. Employment Acts. Conditions oat Work Place Regs etc. They also unlike most and certainly Servicemen pay 11% of their gross salary to the Pension Scheme.

In exchange to them given up all their rights of protection it was agreed that their pay was settled by a board appointed by the Goverment. The pay year date starts on 1st Sept. The Panel awared a 2.5% pay rise for the year 2007/2008 the Goverment said yes you will get that but we will only pay it from next pay day making it a 1.9% pay rise.

Now I will agree that Senior Police Officers have lost the plot and the beat copper is not doing what the public want but that is not PC Plods fault. You must remember that Plod lives 24/7 in the community that is being policed and most work shift patterns 24/7/12 for up to 30 years not a six month deployment then 12 to 18 months training with a 4 day week ETC.

The Labour Goverment did the same in 1977 when this whole system pay by arbitration was set up in exactly the same circumstances.

END OF RANT

Nutty

Nutty :hug: , as a Superplod you don't come under my rant. You deserved what you got. :notworthy: I'm basically moaning about those policepersons who think they are entitled to choose which members of the public, who pay their wages after all, they can serve and bugger the rest. :angry4: However I am rather pissed off when I cannot strike, my workplace is exempt from ALL legislation that my employer hasn't volunteered to broadly follow, including health and safety legislation, and I have got a below inflation pay rise for 7 years now. Last year staff with over 10 years experience got a pay increase of 0.7%, which is twice as generous as the previous couple of years. We get no London weighting, yet the police working in my workplace get Inner London weighting that before ill-health forced me to work shorter hours, equalled half my annual salary after I've paid tax and pension contributions. The ultimate irony, is though, that we were better paid under the Conservatives than under the so-called socialists.

End of Son of Bitter and Twisted Rant.

thingy
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Nutty said:
PS what we did in 77/78 was work to rule, that means all the rules so it is not easy. As a CID Officer I would leave the Station to go to a Robbery Victim but parked outside the Police Station was Joe Soaps car on double yellow lines while he sought directions. I would have normally walked on but no I am a Police Officer first and a person is breaking the law Nicked and off to court no fixed penalty tickets for Policemen in them days. This of course would happen to every law breaker I met on my way to the robbery victim. In fact often I failed to reach the vcictim and the process wouls start the next day. Mean while the Court Process section was swamped with paper work for petty offences. Now if that what you want stick up for Brooooon and his cohorts

NUtty


Very public spirited of you… I'm sure the robbery victim understood your conduct.

Seems the concept of a Police 'Service' is a very thin veneer for the Boys in Blue.
 
Steve you could of course strike and not be subject ti inprisonment unlike a Police Officer but we both know by the very nature of your place of your employment you would be alone and side tracked until you left. As with Buck House most of the people you work with are there for the ego trip a kudos not money.

A copper living in Croydon and working Brixton for thirty years following the fashion and policy of what ever Commisioner if in the Chair, that nice Mr Blair, who I worked for many years ago and a Labour arse licker currently holds. Has no say in what service the Public receive he, like you, has to go with the flow.

Nutty
 

slim

War Hero
All the plods are asking is that the government stick to an agreement.
Surely BOTH sides should act in accordance with agreed proceedures. In this case the governmen should pay what was recommended.
 

NotmeChief

Banned
Thingy wrote
I'm basically moaning about those policepersons who think they are entitled to choose which members of the public, who pay their wages after all, they can serve and bugger the rest

That is my gripe too, and just to reinforce that, Gerrards home was burgled last night. A Rolex watch and some jewelery was taken. A neighbor has just said on the news that it was swarming with police including a helicopter.
You and me might have the entire contents of our home removed and all you get is a number and maybe pc plod will call in on the way home if he hasn't got any shopping to do.

That doesn't mean that the shittiest government of all time with the crappiest leader(s) EVER should not pay up what they themselves agreed to.
 
Oil_Slick said:
Nutty said:
PS what we did in 77/78 was work to rule, that means all the rules so it is not easy. As a CID Officer I would leave the Station to go to a Robbery Victim but parked outside the Police Station was Joe Soaps car on double yellow lines while he sought directions. I would have normally walked on but no I am a Police Officer first and a person is breaking the law Nicked and off to court no fixed penalty tickets for Policemen in them days. This of course would happen to every law breaker I met on my way to the robbery victim. In fact often I failed to reach the vcictim and the process wouls start the next day. Mean while the Court Process section was swamped with paper work for petty offences. Now if that what you want stick up for Brooooon and his cohorts

NUtty




Very public spirited of you… I'm sure the robbery victim understood your conduct.

Seems the concept of a Police 'Service' is a very thin veneer for the Boys in Blue.


The very nature of any work to rule or strike is the public suffer, it is the nature of the beast. You can of course roll over like a puppy and ask Brooooon to rub your tummy.

NUtty
 

timex

Lantern Swinger
I've just started working for the Police up in the North East, started the Job in Sept and it has certainly opened my eyes to a few things.

1. No way would I be a Bobby, they get f****d around from pillar to post, they spend all duty chasing stats.

2. Most of the Bobby's on the streets are running around by themselves and spend all duty chasing from one job to the next.

3. The "bosses" spend nearly all duty/shift making sure that in any incident all boxes are ticked, never mind the policing.

4. The guys and girls are all fairly genuine people just trying to make the best of a bad job, undermanned, under resourced and overstretched. (sound familiar)?

5. Most of the stuff they have to deal with is domestic/drink related b*****s and /or people who have gone missing.

All in all they are only asking for an agreement to be honoured, Scotland is doing it!
 

finknottle

Banned
It's my opinion that the vast majority of them could not catch a cold and are compared to our lads on the front line in Afghanistan or Iraq overpaid as it is.
 
The thing that I find amusing is the Plod head sheds who have all turned into semi political PC arrse lickers (in my opinion) seem suprised that the Govt. have shat on them. This Govt. has shat on everyone, why did plod think he was exempt?

As to the burgalry of gerrard, I got burgled whilst away working and my missus was in our house at the time. I didn't get a police helo or a superintendant turn up on my doorstep co-ordinating the hunt. Infact I didn't even get to see a copper. There is a two tier police service in this country.

Plod should either strike or work to rule, this Govt. doesn't listen to reasoned argument, either do one of those two things or stop whinging, I'd hazard a guess Royals wages hasn't gone up 40% in the last decade.
 

hnhnwilliam

Lantern Swinger
timex said:
I've just started working for the Police up in the North East, started the Job in Sept and it has certainly opened my eyes to a few things.

I lost faith and respect for the police a few years ago.If they went on strike, they would not be missed in the North East except for pheffing football matches, you see hordes of them, mounted, dog section, groups of six every few yards, and of course their cars and vans. My friend's son is a PC of 4 years, my friend could not wait to tell me of his son's commendation..........for time keeping.I would support that they go on strike....anything to bring down this goverment.A PC can double+ his pay with overtime.
It is about time the armed Services were paid an overtime rate but I guess we should fight for a minimum hourly rate first
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
If the Boys in Blue think their underpaid for what they (don't) do, here's a concept for them.

Resign and join the Army… MP's are always looking for bright young things.

Only one problem with the job though… Gav the Chav may call you rude words and kick your shins, but Tariq the Talib will use something a damn sight more dangerous than harsh words and a bad attitude.
 
wet_blobby said:
Hmmm,

How does forces pay stack up against this little lot? considering all the figures on the graph are without overtime, london allowance etc..

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44296000/gif/_44296951_pub_sector_pay_203gr.gif

Stupid me, and to think I though fighting fires was more dangerous! I'm a little shocked by those figures. a PC on median pay earns more in 8 days than I earn in 30! If they open up the police to disabled 40 somethings I'd be interested in joining! :razz:
 
Thingy, depending upon your disability, your age as a forty something would not be a bar to becoming a Police Officer in many, if not all, forces - so go on, put yourself forward and apply - what's stopping you?

I was at the meeting in QE2 Conference Centre in London today. It's not about the money its about us trying to retain one of the few limited rights we have and for the Home Secretary to honour a binding agreement.

I don't for one minute think being a plod, which I am, is more dangerous than being shot at in Afghanistan or Iraq but the brave lads and lasses who are doing that job get guns to fight back. I dont think if I went over there with my Pava Spray and baton I would be able to defend myself that well but often we are placed in very difficult and dangerous circumstances with little back up, piss poor equipment (sound familiar) and little support from our managers or government where our lives are on the line - we hae to run into danger when others run from it.

In my personal opinion the police at the moment are providing a poor service - why is this? It's because we have to achieve targets that the government want us to achieve. We do their shit jobs how they want, when they want. Most of us, I believe, would love to be doing the job very differently than we are now but we are nothing but government puppets getting shafted and pissed around all the time with ever changing priorities.

Yes I accept we do get paid well for what we do, and I also agree all the lads and lasses in the forces don't get paid nearly enough for what you do but you, like the police, are unfortunately powerless to do much about it.

You lot quite rightly drip when you've got a gripe, well we're dripping at the moment because we've got one too.
 
KCJ, the Police are providing a piss poor service at the moment, think like the average civvy for a moment, they are more likely to meet plod face to face if they break the 30mph law by 2mph than if they report a burglary, they are more likely to see a ex police car at a service station with a cardboard cut out copper than they are to see a copper on the beat.

The Police have been alienated by the very policys they have carried out for this govt. Too see them now whinging I find very ironic. I don't doubt...well I do actually.......I was going to say something about the coppers at the workface, but, of what I've seen they're all PC, target chasing beasts who I'm afraid in my eyes have lost the public sympathy.

I'm just enjoying this as the farce that it is. Sympathy, you boys lost that when you became target driven and anti motorist. The next thing I expect to hear is some copper whinging about the paperwork running a ballot would make or his civil/human rights.
 
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