Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore billets

Clouseau

Banned
In an effort to spark some more relevant, current RN issues I am going to try and start a series of threads that are surprisingly lacking in the forums. (Maybe I've missed them?)

No.1 - With the potential introduction of the Training Delivery Business Case, and the desire to reduce the uniformed content of the DLO/DPA, how will the RN be able to ensure it's personnel receive adequate time ashore?

(Time ashore is not loafing time - it delivers training and development opportunities as well as well earned Harmony time.)
 

Clouseau

Banned
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

So. As I suspected there's no-one interested that there won't be any shore billets in the next few years?

This indictates a overwhelming apathy in the RN OR there are very few serving members in the forums.
 
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

Who the fcuk ever joined the Navy to be in a shore billet?
If you want to be ashore you join one of the lesser services surely??
 

Clouseau

Banned
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

Lingyai said:
Who the fcuk ever joined the Navy to be in a shore billet?
If you want to be ashore you join one of the lesser services surely??
Humour, right? :lol:
 
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

A very pertinant point inspector. Sea Shore ratio is and has for a long time been an important part of retention of both officers and ratings. If the balance goes to too much sea then manpower will bleed away, and it will be the trained and skilled manpower that goes.

This is equally linked to your point on contractorisation of maintainance. Yes contractors can be cheap, but if it results in the loss of the people to operate at sea then you end up with a cheap unusable capability.

Contractorisation of course is a creeping paralisis, and the body will not be rendered completely imobile until after those who santioned it have been long gone

Peter
 
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

Clouseau said:
Lingyai said:
Who the fcuk ever joined the Navy to be in a shore billet?
If you want to be ashore you join one of the lesser services surely??
Humour, right? :lol:
Err No??? Maybe I am just a sad seagoing bastard :twisted:
 

rnsparker

Midshipman
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

The amount of shore time is guaranteed under Separated Service which if my memory serves me correctly is that once a rating has completed 660 days of seperated service then he/she is guaranteed 330 days ashore in his/her base port. The question is what do these ratings do if all the shore billets have gone under TDBC. It would seem that they are to be stock piled at the waterfront where they will be found "something to do". At the SR level undoubtedly some will be used within the training establishments, however, the current thrust for training is to try and convert current training into CBT/Emulation etc which can then be carried out at the Waterfront thus negating the requirement for instructors and of course saving even more money!!!

Regards
 
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

rnsparker said:
The question is what do these ratings do if all the shore billets have gone under TDBC. It would seem that they are to be stock piled at the waterfront where they will be found "something to do".
Regards
I've met quite a few who seem to be shunted into the baggage store simply to give them somewhere to work - not really good for morale. Shore billets where a JR can be usefully employed are now few and far between - unless they join SERCO or Flagship!

However, regarding the TDBC, if RN instructors are going, they will be replaced by civilians; granted most are ex-RN, but their knowledge and experience will not stay current - the ideal instructor is a keen PO/CPO with very recent sea time who can give the benefit of their experience to the trainees and help update the courses they are instructing.
 

grefs

Lantern Swinger
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

Why join the RN if you want shore time??????
 

CrazyWiggy

Midshipman
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

grefs said:
Why join the RN if you want shore time??????
Because getting to spend some quality time with family, friends, dog, etc gets quite difficult on a 42.
 

clanky

War Hero
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

The civilianisation of our training process represents one of the greatest threats to our ethos. The responsibility for training our next generation of sailors should belong to our brightest and best, not to someone with one eye on the clock, and the other on the bottom line.
I'm not suggesting that there is no place for civilians in the instructional process, especially in technical areas. Neither am I in any way denigrating the commitment of many Flagship staff. I do however feel that the balance has tilted too far towards civilianisation.
I'd love a challenging job in an instructional environment when I finish my current sea job. There just is'nt going to be enough of them for me and all my suitably qualified and reccomended peers. This leaves me with the tough choice of stagnating somewhere in the Dockyard, playing Golf in Abbeywod or slapping the chit in.
We are also currently eating our seed corn. At the moment, suitably qualified instructors can leave the RN on the friday and turn up in their Flagship overalls on monday, bringing their knowledge and currency with them. Where is this pool of suitably qualified/experienced senior rates going to come from in (say) 15 years time?
And before anyone says it, there will always be aspects of training that cannot be delivered from a PC workstation on the waterfront.
Rant mode off
 
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

CrazyWiggy said:
Because getting to spend some quality time with family, friends, dog, etc gets quite difficult on a 42.
Very true.

And I appreciate that we've all heard the expression "if you don't like it, leave". All very well, but many people were leaving, especially the experienced POs and CPOs who were most likely to have families.

Hence the introduction of Harmony Time, Minimum Time Ashore and Topmast.
 

grefs

Lantern Swinger
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

CrazyWiggy said:
grefs said:
Why join the RN if you want shore time??????
Because getting to spend some quality time with family, friends, dog, etc gets quite difficult on a 42.
I thought the old saying went something like, " I joined the Navy to see the sea "
 

brigham600

War Hero
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

Well said Clanky and oh so very true.

Its all very well saying training can be delivered from a WTEC using CBT or Emulation, but quite how you emulate everything in training is beyond me.

I currently work for the civil service having left the RN in June and am due to transfer over to Flagship early next year. To say I am not looking forward to it would be an understatement as my previous experience with Flagship is of shoddy management and training values. Just my opinion by the way.

Just where exactly are they going to employ all these experienced SRs when they leave their ships? Very few instructional billets, no main gate jobs or CPO or PO any billets, LFSs are slowly diminishing also.

Oh well, at least they will have saved enough money to keep our hard working and underpaid politicians in housing, holidays and travel. ;-)
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

clanky said:
...there will always be aspects of training that cannot be delivered from a PC workstation on the waterfront.
CBT is not real training - I'm sorry, the people who beleive that answering multi-guess questions at a computer is the same as doing the job in a training environment are deluded!
 

Clouseau

Banned
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

FlagWagger said:
clanky said:
...there will always be aspects of training that cannot be delivered from a PC workstation on the waterfront.
CBT is not real training - I'm sorry, the people who beleive that answering multi-guess questions at a computer is the same as doing the job in a training environment are deluded!
CBT is old hat. Training should be a combination of practical, instructional and synthetic.

Modern syntheic trainers are capable of streaching the maintainer much more than buggering around with the real thing. You can "simulate" much more complex faults and "simulate" a screwed system much more effectively than inn a real system.
 

rnsparker

Midshipman
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

I don't think anyone believes that the use of CBT etc is better than instructor led training in a classroom or using GFE. However, we have to accept the fact that the Navy is broke - in the current or near future financial climate we are not going to see training courses lengthened, piles of equipment being provided for training etc. What we are likely to see is equipment emulators and self paced interactive learning packages all delivered to the WLC and directly to ships via the DLP using DII. A lot of this training will be delivered without an instructor (massive savings in the training budget).
Don't get me wrong, I would love to go back to the old days of training where time, equipment resources and manpower were in abundance, but it isn't going to happen so there is no point in "fighting the white". The only thing we can do is to try and ensure that whatever "CBT" packages we do get are the best that can be provided.

Regards
 

fishmiester

Banned
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

brigham600 said:
Well said Clanky and oh so very true.

Its all very well saying training can be delivered from a WTEC using CBT or Emulation, but quite how you emulate everything in training is beyond me.

I currently work for the civil service having left the RN in June and am due to transfer over to Flagship early next year. To say I am not looking forward to it would be an understatement as my previous experience with Flagship is of shoddy management and training values. Just my opinion by the way.

Just where exactly are they going to employ all these experienced SRs when they leave their ships? Very few instructional billets, no main gate jobs or CPO or PO any billets, LFSs are slowly diminishing also.

Oh well, at least they will have saved enough money to keep our hard working and underpaid politicians in housing, holidays and travel. ;-)
Is it true they have cut over 250 instructing jobs in Collingwood to give them to Flagship. Heard that Buzz on board today....
 
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

fishmiester said:
Is it true they have cut over 250 instructing jobs in Collingwood to give them to Flagship. Heard that Buzz on board today....
Well, there are an awful lot of instructor jobs being advertised on the Career Transition Partnership job site, most of them in Fareham and working for Flagship.
 

slim

War Hero
Re: Relevant and Current Issues No.1 - TDBC & Shore bill

fishmiester said:
brigham600 said:
Well said Clanky and oh so very true.

Its all very well saying training can be delivered from a WTEC using CBT or Emulation, but quite how you emulate everything in training is beyond me.

I currently work for the civil service having left the RN in June and am due to transfer over to Flagship early next year. To say I am not looking forward to it would be an understatement as my previous experience with Flagship is of shoddy management and training values. Just my opinion by the way.

Just where exactly are they going to employ all these experienced SRs when they leave their ships? Very few instructional billets, no main gate jobs or CPO or PO any billets, LFSs are slowly diminishing also.

Oh well, at least they will have saved enough money to keep our hard working and underpaid politicians in housing, holidays and travel. ;-)
Is it true they have cut over 250 instructing jobs in Collingwood to give them to Flagship. Heard that Buzz on board today....
When I was at Daedalus on POs course there were only a handful of civie instructors on the station. They were good but to be honest not as good as the service instructors (either the officers or senior rates). The one thing that I did notice was though that a lot of the service instructors did seem to be at Daedalus permanently and never seemed to get a sea draft. When they did many of them seemed adapt at escaping from it.
Hope the navy isn't going the same way as the army with mainly civie instructors. Or am i too late and it has already happened
 
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