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Rear Admiral epaulette change?

IIRC Commodores still appear on the Captain's list. You were it as a title for a particular job, such as Commodore Amphibious Warfare. When that job ceased or your time in it was over you reverted to your previous rank - or get promoted if you were lucky.
 
Navaleye said:
IIRC Commodores still appear on the Captain's list. You were it as a title for a particular job, such as Commodore Amphibious Warfare. When that job ceased or your time in it was over you reverted to your previous rank - or get promoted if you were lucky.

Nope - it's a substantive rank. There is no reversion to the Captain's List anymore. It used to be a rank you were promoted into almost like Local Acting, but those days are well gone!
 
Pompey Sailor I bow to modern Rank Badges and as you so corecctly pointed out thay did not have them in my era. However remember when the film was made and the shoulder board is one for a Rear Admiral
 
PompeySailor said:
Navaleye said:
IIRC Commodores still appear on the Captain's list. You were it as a title for a particular job, such as Commodore Amphibious Warfare. When that job ceased or your time in it was over you reverted to your previous rank - or get promoted if you were lucky.

Nope - it's a substantive rank. There is no reversion to the Captain's List anymore. It used to be a rank you were promoted into almost like Local Acting, but those days are well gone!

Now I thought that Commodore was now a rank, having been an appointment for many years. It used to be the only rank where you had a de-lacing allowance on reversion to Captain (very ware though). In the 1990s they made it a rank to fall in line with the Army and RAF.
 
PartTimer said:
Careful! Not sure we want to go down the USN route. When they re-introduced the Commodore rank in 1982 as a 1 star it was known as Commodore Admiral, but reverted to just Commodore the following year. However, in 1985 an appointment of Commodore was introduced (similar to RN of the period I think), and to repvent confusion between the 2 the rank of Commodore became Rear Admiral (Lower Half).

Present day USN Commodores wear Captains rank, but are addressed as Commodore.

Confusing or what.

Yes and No.. Commodore is a title associated with a position held by a Captain, not all Captains are addressed as Commodore. The Commodore position that I am familiar with is in Aviation. A Squadron is commanded by a Commander. Five or so Squadrons report to a Wing. A Wing is commanded by a Captain addressed as Commodore.

As I remember.. Prior to 1986 (I was a Second Class Petty Officer in 1986 and my relationship with officers was to hide from them) The USN had no “One Star†rank insignia for “O-7 grade†We had the grade for pay but all O-7 & O-8 wore the ‘Two Star†insignia of the other services. ( but trust me, the USN Rear Admirals knew who was in what order within their ranks ) The other services did not like knowing that their USN counterpart may be a grade lower than them yet wearing the same “Two Starsâ€. This isn't the first time that the USN rank structure was modified to appease the other services



More information than you ever wanted or needed

OFFICER RANK INSIGNIA
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter4/chapter_4sec1.htm#sec1

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html

The Origin of the Ranks and Rank Insignia Now Used by the United States Armed Forces
http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia04.htm

History of U.S. Naval Uniforms and Insignia
http://users.sisna.com/justinb/LINE.HTML
 
PMSL!

Yes and No.. Commodore is a title associated with a position held by a Captain, not all Captains are addressed as Commodore. The Commodore position that I am familiar with is in Aviation. A Squadron is commanded by a Commander. Five or so Squadrons report to a Wing. A Wing is commanded by a Captain addressed as Commodore.

At least thats nice and clear then?LOL
 
Erm I'm not too into the technicalities of it but why do admirals and commodores etc have to wear golden shoulderboards with stars and swords and crowns and batons and wreathes on them? What'd be wrong with them wearing their stripes on black epaulettes like all others?

I.e. Lt has 2 stripes on his reefers cuff so he wears 2 stripes on his shoulder in other dress. So why cant flag officers do that? It'd make everything a lot less confusing if a rear admiral just wore one wide strip and one stripe with a curl, like he has on his cuff, rather than trying to think what 5 silver stars, a crown and crossed swords on golden background means!

It looks like Army Generals ranks, and you don't see the RAF adopting Army rank badges... It is almost as bad as the USN having stripes on their cuffs like the RN (except with stars not curls) but in working rig they wear bars and leaves and eagles on their collars in an effort to appease Army and USAF officers.
 
Cos the RN is The Senior Service,so we can do what we want!
Rule of Thumb,The more Gold you see,the snappier the Salute!
 
Because that's the way we've always done it - look at pictures of Nelson and you'll see gold epaulettes with two big silver stars. Incidentally, US admirals wear gold shoulderboards just like their RN counterparts.

There are actually admirals' shoulder slides with stripes, which are used in working rig.
 
andym said:
PMSL!

Yes and No.. Commodore is a title associated with a position held by a Captain, not all Captains are addressed as Commodore. The Commodore position that I am familiar with is in Aviation. A Squadron is commanded by a Commander. Five or so Squadrons report to a Wing. A Wing is commanded by a Captain addressed as Commodore.

At least thats nice and clear then?LOL

Sorry... easier doing it than explaining it.. If one of us were to meet a Commodore we would address him/her as Captain.. If we were introduced to him/her or we knew that he/she were visiting our ship that day we would then know to use the title Commodore..
 
The basic idea of the Commodore rank is that in a given appointment he becomes the senior Captain . This then solves problems of visiting ships Commanding Officers [Captains] being more senior to the area 'flag' officer .[ie Commodore] on that station.

Rebadging--yes but the idea hasn't changed.
 
Even after Cdre became substantive, capital ships were usually driven by Cdres who de-laced to Captain for that appointment, and were called/addressed as Captain, but paid as Cdres (something to do with only the Royal Yacht could be commanded by a Cdre - is that right?). Until middle of 2005, the Bridge Card used to call the COs of CVS/LPHs "Capt Johnson-Flipflop" (for example). But then they changed the terminology to "Cdre Doobrey-Whatsit (Local Captain in Command)" - and no-one knew how to address them.

I know of one CO of a large ship who wears his Cdre's uniform the whole time at sea when no Admiral is embarked (so no-one can pick him up), but 4 rings when shoreside and another who does the exact opposite (Captain on board, Cdre in the Dockyard). If they can't agree, what chance do we have?!

And as for "Flag Officer", I am fairly certain that this term has a specific meaning (ie FOST), separate from "Officer of Flag Rank" (ie COS to 2SL), neither of which cover "Commodore entitled to fly a Broad Pennant" (ie COMDEVFLOT). So, no, a Commodore is not a Flag Officer.
 

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