Rape or Consent

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Passed-over_Loggie, Feb 20, 2010.

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  1. Listening to the wireless just now; http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qpqj8

    A new wave of belief that some women are asking to be raped. Very interesting and open to wide discussion but I am a bit worried by the growing almost Islamic view of womens' sexuality.

    Accepting that the whole thing is an unswept minefield, what do you chaps and chapesses think?
  2. I think in some cases there are some women who willingly have sex with someone on a night out, then in the morning think "I couldn't have slept with him, he must have raped me" Or something along those lines. It's women like them who ruin lives, so in my opinion, some women change the story and in that context, even though it wasn't rape, are leading innocent men on.
  3. It's alright if you shout 'surprise'. Snafeguard!
  4. Having done a large amount of internet dating in the past, it was interesting how often the same stories crept in about forced or abusive sexual assault. They were almost always in the early stages of seeing a girl, which I found odd as who would want to share something that intimate so early.

    I have no doubt that some of these unfortunate tales were true, but I came to believe that a lot of girls simply invented a similar tale to elicit sympathy.

    I eventually put it on a par with those women who after coming back to mine on a first date would inevitably tell me in the morning, "I don't normally do this y'know." Of course you don't...

    As for the 'leading on/ asking for it' aspect, I think some girls aren't very bright in realising that getting a drunk bloke in bed and then telling him no is not going to end up like a humorous ending from friends with rueful smiles and laughter all round. Yes the bloke should stop, but I think the women also has a responsibility not to end up in that situation either.

    Outside of the obvious women lying/ blokes raping, I believe it's usually a series of mistakes on both parties, but usually the final, tangible, mistake is the blokes, which is why he'll end up as the defendant.
  5. If the cheque bounces it's rape,if the Visa card goes thru it's consent.Simple really.
  6. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Judging by the lack of sensible answers on this thread, I think it is fairly obvious how most people think about this reactionary comment and the extremely offensive assumption that women "ask for it". The act of rape very often has little to do with sex, but is based on an animal desire to control and overpower a weaker partner (male or female).

    I would be interested to see what our female members here have to say on the matter, but I would like to assume it is contrary to those posted already - if they can contain their disgust and bother to post in the first place... :shock: :roll:
  7. The aspect that I find worrying is this; http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/02/blame-rape-women-survey

    Arguably, most 21st Century dancing is provocative. Similarly, a girl with her skirt half way up her bum and showing a fathom of cleavage surely can't be accused of openly inviting a length?
  8. There is a superfluity of hard drinking girls in the UK who in all probability do not have a clue what went on the previous night and that can easily lead to false accusations when remorse sets in the following day.
  9. Having just been for a spin in your charabanc in your very best plus fours I take it?

    That new jazz music is so avant-garde don't you think?

    Penny for your thoughts old chap. :D
  10. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Surely if a woman wants to dress in thay way then that is her choice? Perhaps she does so to make herself feel good, or it is appropriate to the conditions at the time (warm weather, etc)? Where is it laid down - other than in the minds of predatory men - that a short skirt and cleavage equals invitation to sex (consentual or otherwise)? I admit that it is a natural reaction of men to look. but an entirely different course of action to aggressively follow up those manifested thoughts with hostile intent... :oops:
  11. It's now case law in NZ that if a woman is paraletically legless it is beholding on the male to presume lack of consent.
    I'll try a find a linky.
    So concious soberish partners only is my advice. :cry:
  12. I would hope that is the case in any civilised country NZ.
  13. All joking aside, that is fcuking horrid. At the end of the day, no means no, period. Only the rapist is to blame, saying that they were 'led on' is no excuse. However, women who cry rape because of a guilt trip - shame on them also. I know a couple of people in the Mob that's happened to and I'm sure we've all heard of the CPOMA who lost his career, his pension, his wife, kids and home all because of that and was subsequently cleared. They both ruin lives.
  14. sgtpepperband. I think we may be in agreement. :D
  15. It seems that some of the more testosterone enhanced amongst us need it explaining to them by a Judge.
  16. I listened to the debate, and I very nearly didn't post anything. Firstly, I want to point out that anything I say here is only representative of my own personal views as a woman.

    To me, rape is only one thing. A person who is forced to have sex without their consent. Obviously, the circumstances can be hugely different, but, at the end of the day, no means no. The vast majority of men would never ignore that, but to say the woman is at fault is a dangerous statement. Yes, a woman can lead a man on, she can be drunk and only realise what she is doing when it's about to happen. I trying to say this next bit as best as possible. Women are not weak, but when it comes down to it, most men are stronger than women, and I believe that knowing both that they are likely to be stronger, and the type of impact that rape can have on a woman, men have a certain power - a choice whether to stop when somethings not right, or to plow on ahead.

    "1 in 4 of women between the ages of 18 and 24 felt that wearing a short skirt, accepting a drink, or even engaging in conversation with a man made them partly responsible."

    That to me, is not fair. Not only to women, but to men. Can you honestly say that everytime you bought a woman a drink or had a conversation with her, you were automatically being offered sex? And in repect to the women, if they refused to talk to any men or talk to them it would be a rather awkward night - not to mention rude. Women do get dressed up, maybe show a bit of leg and wear a low cut top, and go out dancing/drinking. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they also want to sleep with somebody. I do think that it can be comforting for a woman to think that - it does give the false idea that if they absatin from doing these things they will be safe, but unfortunately that is not the case - it could happen to anybody.

    Anothr thing that was said on the show was the man's ability to think and act. Somebody highlighted the fact that even if a woman has been drunk, and things have become heated, a man can think and act of his own accord - if a woman changes her mind, he should always know to stop. Yes, the wman was possibly stupid in getting into tha position, but the man should still stop, no matter what. Obviously we also have the women who wake up the next day and can't remember what happened, and cry rape. That, to me, is a very serious issue, and each case needs to be looked at individually. It is in no way acceptable for anybody to claim they have been raped if they havn't, or if they simply regret it the next day. I'm sure many of us, myself included, have woken up the next morning going "Bloody hell, that was stupid", or something to that effect. But everybody needs to know the distinction between regret and rape - and those who HAVE been raped should never be punished, whether that be in society or in a court of law, because their claims or dismissed as regret.

    One of the witnesses, Angela Levin, said the following:
    "I don't like the use of the word rape - that's very emotive. I think it's wrong if men go all the way when women say no, but I don't think it's so wrong that they should go to court - I think they should talk about it themselves, they should work it out between them, I think the women should put it down as a wrong and bad experience and learn from it."

    That would seem to be a contradicion within itself - the man's wrong, but don't dare punish him for it? Silly woman, just learn that you are not allowed to dress up, or talk to a man, without giving him sex? That, to me, could be very dmaging to true rape victims - the idea that they should learn from their mistakes?? I have to give credit to the person who asked te question, "What would be the cut-off point -what length of skirt/how many units of alcohol can be consumed before it moves to a lower category of a crime?"

    Anything said above should not be taken as accusatory towards anyone - I simply listened to the recording and have written down a jumbled version of my thoughts.
  17. If the man has been buying a woman alcohol would the man also not be consuming the same amount and therefore be as judgementally impaired as the woman?
  18. In a perfect world, even drunk a man should unerstand no. Obviously that doesn't always happen - hence the problems.

    I personally think that this problem could be reduced if the binge drinking culture of today was reduced - if less people, both men and women, went out and got so drunk they can't control their actions, there would be less cases of alleged rape to begin with.
  19. I see, so a drunk woman can use her drunkeness as a reason why she was unable to make it clear that she doesn't want sex but an equally drunk male should be able to discern that?
    Confused much? :?
    Me too. 8O
    I'm not excusing rape, but it is often a case of he said, she said and for one party to admit to being legless but then claim they were raped by another drunk seems to me to be stretching credulity.

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