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RAF Puma Crash inquest

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Apologies if it's been covered elsewhere, but the Puma Crash inquest again raises extremely serious issues with regard the professionalism & conduct of supposedly qualified pilots in the Armed Forces.

This isn't the first time that the supervision & administration of those trusted with overall charge of multi-million pound aircraft & the lives of those inside & out, has been brought into question.

Pissed-up Tornado pilots flying the "day after the night before" are equally as culpable - amazingly the idiots brag about it at social events.

My thoughts are very much with the families of the victims, including those that directly caused the incident itself. The shambolic management that permits this to occur should hang their collective heads in shame - sadly they will never accept responsibility for allowing it to happen whilst remaining happy to take the wage.
 

Waspie

War Hero
Ninja_Stoker said:
Apologies if it's been covered elsewhere, but the Puma Crash inquest again raises extremely serious issues with regard the professionalism & conduct of supposedly qualified pilots in the Armed Forces.

This isn't the first time that the supervision & administration of those trusted with overall charge of multi-million pound aircraft & the lives of those inside & out, has been brought into question.

Pissed-up Tornado pilots flying the "day after the night before" are equally as culpable - amazingly the idiots brag about it at social events.

My thoughts are very much with the families of the victims, including those that directly caused caused the incident itself. The shambolic management that permits this to occur should hang their collective heads in shame - sadly they will never accept responsibility for allowing it to happen whilst remaining happy to take the wage.

Mmmmm!!!!! I could wax lyrical regards the issue but due to the fact our wonderful media read and misquote from RR I shall abstain. However, it was only time before the crabs killed someone with cowboy procedures.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
The simple fact is that we seek to recruit very young, physically fit, academically able, single-minded, confident, very brave, (arrogant, immature?) individuals to perform the most exacting tasks - one would hope that the people who employ them would take the modicum of responsibility in keeping these 'live-wires' closely supervised in the training environment before letting them "out-pin" to their maximum capacity in an operational environment.
 

Blackrat

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Ninja_Stoker said:
The simple fact is that we seek to recruit very young, physically fit, academically able, single-minded, confident, very brave, (arrogant, immature?) individuals to perform the most exacting tasks - one would hope that the people who employ them would take the modicum of responsibility in keeping these 'live-wires' closely supervised in the training environment before letting them "out-pin" to their maximum capacity in an operational environment.

You would think wouldn't you? The crabs are a law unto themselves and always have been.
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
Didn't seem to worry anyone during the war. Tales abound of 18-19 year old pilots in charge of heavy bombers
who were inclined to sink a few at the bar at any opportunity. I know times have changed - perhaps the attitude of some of those who should know better, hasn't.

2BM
 

Blackrat

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
2badge_mango said:
Didn't seem to worry anyone during the war. Tales abound of 18-19 year old pilots in charge of heavy bombers
who were inclined to sink a few at the bar at any opportunity. I know times have changed - perhaps the attitude of some of those who should know better, hasn't.

2BM

Quite correct 2BM but they were indeed different days. Those poor sods new that their life expantancy was very short so made the best of every opportunity. The same cannot be said for pilots/aircrew in peacetime.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
The inquest has reached a verdict and Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt refers to lapses of judgement and professionalism on the part of the crew. So so can we. The 'mobile phone' shots and cockpit voice recorder remove any doubt. The floor is open with the usual caveats. No names no cap tallies.

Pissed / hungover pilots? I've seen it once and half the ship's company told the old man before he got in the cab. The shit hit the fan but I wasn't around for the end result.
 

scouse

War Hero
Seadog said:
The inquest has reached a verdict and Rear Admiral Johnstone-Burt refers to lapses of judgement and professionalism on the part of the crew. So so can we. The 'mobile phone' shots and cockpit voice recorder remove any doubt. The floor is open with the usual caveats. No names no cap tallies.

Pissed / hungover pilots? I've seen it once and half the ship's company told the old man before he got in the cab. The shit hit the fan but I wasn't around for the end result.
:roll: Their is no such thing as an old and bold pilot!!!
 
'There's old pilots, there's bold pilots. But there's no old bold pilots'
Anyone in aviation who forgets that little maxim can count the days.
 

scouse

War Hero
sussex2 said:
'There's old pilots, there's bold pilots. But there's no old bold pilots'
Anyone in aviation who forgets that little maxim can count the days.
Fine words :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:
 

Waspie

War Hero
Ninja_Stoker said:
The simple fact is that we seek to recruit very young, physically fit, academically able, single-minded, confident, very brave, (arrogant, immature?) individuals to perform the most exacting tasks - one would hope that the people who employ them would take the modicum of responsibility in keeping these 'live-wires' closely supervised in the training environment before letting them "out-pin" to their maximum capacity in an operational environment.

I would actually disagree NS.

Crews should be selected with a balance of experience and inexperience. Flights are briefed in depth and at each stage there are ample opportunities for all the crew to question and satisfy themselves they know what is required and what the flight parameters are.

The briefing officer should ensure all crew members are fully aware of their duties and their responsibilities.

Height, speed and flight characteristics of the mission would be fully briefed as well as ditching and emergency procedures.

No excuse. (Based on fifteen years of military aviation).
 
Blackrat said:
Quite correct 2BM but they were indeed different days. Those poor sods new that their life expantancy was very short so made the best of every opportunity. The same cannot be said for pilots/aircrew in peacetime.

How times have changed;
http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/2022/raf-helicopter-crews-honoured/

Old news now, though.

I wonder how many gash bodies there are around RAF Station Benson at the moment (and Odiham, for that matter) to keep all admin up to date? Not as if they have wall to wall dets and gapped Posts, is it.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Waspie said:
Ninja_Stoker said:
The simple fact is that we seek to recruit very young, physically fit, academically able, single-minded, confident, very brave, (arrogant, immature?) individuals to perform the most exacting tasks - one would hope that the people who employ them would take the modicum of responsibility in keeping these 'live-wires' closely supervised in the training environment before letting them "out-pin" to their maximum capacity in an operational environment.

I would actually disagree NS.

Crews should be selected with a balance of experience and inexperience. Flights are briefed in depth and at each stage there are ample opportunities for all the crew to question and satisfy themselves they know what is required and what the flight parameters are.

The briefing officer should ensure all crew members are fully aware of their duties and their responsibilities.

Height, speed and flight characteristics of the mission would be fully briefed as well as ditching and emergency procedures.

No excuse. (Based on fifteen years of military aviation).

I think we pretty much agree with regard the selection of aircrew, apart from perhaps who is ultimately collectively responsible when they behave irresponsibly.

My slant is that whilst the guy driving is responsible for his own reckless demise unless it occurred for reasons beyond his control, the people that manage these guys should consistently ensure that the duties & responsibilities are adhered at all times rather than sending out mixed messages.

For a fact I & many others are aware of senior officers overlooking "indiscretions" which could have fatal consequences - quite possibly this is why some individuals think they are at liberty to act in such a manner that results in the tragic death of wholly innocent individuals.
 
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