Quick Uniform Question

JimDerDog

Newbie
Bit of a dispute going on about headgear and mess undress. Worn with or without caps outside (ie on way to function)? Quite sure correct form is to wear cap, but many people of the opinion that it is not that normal as the caps tend to go missing once the beer starts flowing. ie it shoudl happen but most get away without wearing one. All help appreciated but dont shout!
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
Pretty certain that you should [officially] wear with cap, however you tend to see this only with officers who are duty officers. For social occasions the unwritten rule seems to be leave it at home; chances are that if you take it, you will forget it.

MOD Web usually have a page which shows all the different rigs. Failing that Naval Stores will know for definite. Personally, I have never worn a cap nor has anyone that I've seen at these events.
 

Bisley

War Hero
personally never worn headress with mess undress or ever seen anybody wearing it as a senior rate. Stand fast officer corps. Dont know what the official standing is ??
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
I think you have answered your own question. Strictly speaking you should have a cap if you are outdoors, but in practice no-one ever does. Unless you will be on duty or out of doors for any length of time in the official gaze, it is best to leave it at home or it will get lost or stolen.
 

capt-ahab

Lantern Swinger
Yeah I've definately seen a few officers wearing caps when going to/from functions onboard if they're going back to the base wardroom (for example).

I mean it makes sense to have a head dress on outside but it just makes them look like they're doing rounds though - bizarre looking uniform combo!
 
Many years ago going to function in pompey in bum freezer,my mate was shouted at by crusher in meat wagon to put his cap on,it used to be caps on if outside,dont know about today.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Looking at the "Blue Uniforms of the Royal Navy" on the RN web-site, No 2 dress is evening wear. For officers there are three options, 2A - mess undress with lid, 2B - mess undress without lid, and 2C - Red Sea rig including cap; for SRs there is no 2A option, 2B is mess-undres without a lid, and 2C has the lid; JRs have 2B and 2C, both shown as including caps.

Hope this makes everything clear, I'm off for a lie down now!
 
FlagWagger said:
Looking at the "Blue Uniforms of the Royal Navy" on the RN web-site, No 2 dress is evening wear. For officers there are three options, 2A - mess undress with lid, 2B - mess undress without lid, and 2C - Red Sea rig including cap; for SRs there is no 2A option, 2B is mess-undres without a lid, and 2C has the lid; JRs have 2B and 2C, both shown as including caps.
Sorry, shippers, you're wrong. 2A is Mess Dress (ie white waistcoats), 2B is Mess Undress (black waistcoats or cummerbunds) and 2C is Red Sea Rig. For all of these, you should technically wear a cap when outside. But no-one ever does (it's like JRs technically having to salute when coming over gangway, but they never do) unless arriving for function on board a ship, when they have to walk up a gangway.

If you're that worried, so as GCYZ says and wear a coat over the top.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
geoffrey said:
2A is Mess Dress (ie white waistcoats)
... which is officers only, not SRs!

geoffrey said:
2B is Mess Undress (black waistcoats or cummerbunds)
... again you're giving the officers' description. For SRs the description on the RN site reads "Mess undress worn with cummerbund / miniature medals"

Personally, I never wear my cap with mess undress becuase a) its too crabby, and b) I'd forget to pick it up from the cloakroom at the end of the night!
 
I am becoming confused with all this talk of types of garments used with the word "Undress" when it sounds like a load of geezers dressing up I think I will return to the bottom of my POND.

Looking at a very recent pic of my son in law RM mess undress (NCO) red bum freezer with black collar, black trousers with red stripe, dress shirt, bow tie and minature medals. Daughter in black ankle length dress.

Nutty
 

Deckhead_Inspector

Lantern Swinger
This is one of those things that falls into what is correct and what is common practice. Correct is wear a cap when out of doors or ashore. Common practice is exactly what Scarlett posted.
Common sense, as always, is follow the senior officer.
 
FlagWagger said:
geoffrey said:
2A is Mess Dress (ie white waistcoats)
... which is officers only, not SRs!
I never said it wasn't (at least, not on this thread). The originator of this post didn't state what he was either (officer/SR). I was correcting you saying that 2A is Mess Undress. It isn't.

FlagWagger said:
geoffrey said:
2B is Mess Undress (black waistcoats or cummerbunds)
... again you're giving the officers' description. For SRs the description on the RN site reads "Mess undress worn with cummerbund / miniature medals"
Bunting, me old mucker. Naval uniform regs and naval custom are most definitely not defined by whatever is on the bloody rubbish MOD website. Although the pictures are taken from the poster "Blue Uniforms of the RN", the description differs, and both are not the same as reality. I say again ... 2Bs is called Mess Undress. Cummerbunds can be worn, but so can black waistcoats, by custom of the Service. In fact, most senior people wear black waistcoats when in Mess Undress rather than cummerbunds (which I think is a shame).

Technically, SRs have no 2As, but I have seen CPOs at very formal functions (ie CINCFLEET dinner) with white waistcoat. Just because in the photos sometimes there's a cap, and sometimes there isn't, makes no difference.
 
I didn't want to start a new thread for this small question, but if anyone has a black mess jacket and the summer white version, can you tell me if they're cut the same way?

I'm looking at a used one, the chest and sleeves all match up, and the point at the back is the same as my black jacket, however the front bottom of the white jacket seems about 1.5" higher than the black one...?
Thanks
 

RabC

MIA
I cant give an official answer but when in Gib approx 20 yrs ago, my White jacket was made using my black one as the template so both were the same.
 
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