Question About The EU

[ET(WE)Sutton]

Is there ruleings saying that we can go live in any country and work there in the EU without visas and all that and claim benifits from there state or is it just people coming here.


I dont understand how it all works? Why is just anybody allowed in to this country for us to pay for them to live and how does it benifit us?


I Do understand about some people trying to get away from really bad places were there lives are in danger and all that, but why do we have everyone waiting to come in and bum off us tax payers.


Our armed forces ment to be the best in the world is slowly goin down the pan and i think its awfull i really do.


(please answer the questions if they make sense dont start talking about my grammer and spelling or how stupid the questions may sound. trying to learn more stuff about politics)

 

[F169]

My daughter required a work permit in Italy, although technically this appears to breach the EU rules. Each country still has its own bureaucracy though. You are supposed to be able to live and work in any EU country but isn it really worth it for the same to be true in reverse? Several hundred thousand who have voted with their feet obviously think so...................

 

[Maxi_77]

You have to legally exist in your chosen EU country, the process varying from country to country, the Italian work permit would only breach EU rules if it could be refused I suspect.

 

[slim]

While working in the tobacco industry I had occasion to work in Germany for a few days. First evening in a local hostelry I was approached by a Scots guy, he asked me where I was living and I told him name of hotel. To which he replied that he could give me a room for half what I was paying. Turns out he was on benefits and had moved from Scotland because the German benefits were better than the British benefits, he had a nice three bed roomed apartment plus enough money from the state, plus what he made letting out two of his rooms. Suffice to say I let him know what I thought of him and didn't see him in the pub again. So not only are EU citizens able to work in other EU countries it seems like they are entitled to use the benefit system as well.

 

[Tartan_Terrier]

You need a residents permit to live in some European countries (including the UK, funnily enough, but it doesn't seem to be enforced).

 

[sweeney]

Comrades, I am really baffled about all this. My other half is a Russian national (won her on ebay) and is a qualified doctor. We're hitched, and she can live here but she cannot work here. She is also not allowed to claim benefits.

However, now we've a squealer on the way and we've got benefits packaging coming out of our ears. We've had visits to all over, hand outs for this that and the other thrown at us and its all good.

But its UK taxes paying for this (which we are paying) and she is not a contributor (because HM govt say she cannot). My work is taking us onto to european mainland next year and she is looking forward to getting back into employment as all the Shengen countries have given her an employemnt card. Now I don't really understand the differences, and I am at the coal face as it were with this!

 

[chris]

its not quite like that.
people from EU countries can come in and leave pretty freely.
while some people do come in, a lot of people leave britain as well, as its been saying in the news recently.

benefits like the dole etc, need a permanent address to claim, which why people who are homeless etc get stuck homeless.

if you have a permanent address, chances are you pay for it in someway, and for food and shit, so they do put something back, even if its not much.

also remember the EU is mostly well off countries. most of the third world isnt in the EU so lots of asylum seekers arent from the EU.

at the end of the day, surviving on the dole is feckin hard. most british people who do, have friends or relatives to help out.

if you moved to another country with only around 80 quid a week, no money or mates, you'd struggle.
so they probably do like cash in hand shit to actually live.
even if they dont pay tax, they still spend it in england, it just means some shopkeeper gets a few extra quid instead of the government.

and dont forget there are a tonne of british people who are more of a waste of space and money then some people who come over here.
some foreigners may come over and live off us and take an easy ride, i bet theres just as many lazy english bastards who sit at home doing fuckall because they are too useless to get off their arse and do something.

i aint some radical lefty policts nut...just its easy to blame people who come over here, when those people who stand outside macdonalds all day shouting abuse at people for no reason are probably just as much of a leech on our taxes

 

[Simmo]

The residency permit is not enforced, it's only a formality if you decide to become a British citizen. You can only become a British Citizen if you have resided in the UK for 5 years and the permit is only there to help prove that.
As I've said on another forum, my wife is Slovak, she's not required to register for a residency permit and can be traced through her NI number if need be, or the electoral register(although she can only vote in local council elections).
She wont be registering in the near future either as we intend to move to Slovakia in the next 2 years, currently planning a veiwing of a house at the mont.

 

[rosinacarley]

Ok lad herr goes - you do know that normally I would charge for this sort of stuff!

1. There are four freedoms which are sacrosanct in the EU - free movemnet of goods, of persons, of services and of capital.
2. I shall not bore with a lecture on the others but will concentrate on the free movement of people.
3. It is a right enshrined within the EC Treaty, of which we are a signatory and which has been brought into UK law by various statutes including the European Communities Act 1973
4. A brief synopsis is that freedom of movemenjt requires the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality in respect of employment, salary and conditions of work and emplyment. There are exceptions by way of public policy, public security or public health.
5. There is also a concept of European Citizenship which gives each citizen of the union the right to move and reside freely within the terrtory of the members states, subject to limitations and conditions laid down by the European Treaty. (eg think about the supposed limit that will be placed on the Romanians/Bulgarians)
6. There is also a right for the workers family to have right of entry and residence
7. There is a right to equal social and tax advantages as national workers
8. Finally, you will be glad to note, that there is harmonisation of provisions governing entitlement to social security benefits as necessary to support free movement of workers and requires arrangements to be made for aggregation of entitlement contributions made in member states and for payment of benefits whilst in member states

That is a rather wordy explanation but I guess you would like the bottom line, any citizen of the EU can live and work in any other member state of the EU.

I believe, and I am open to correction on this, other citizens cannot just get benefits willy nilly. This would be conditional. However I cannot advise you as to the nature of those conditions. You should be wary of mixing citizens of the EU up with (illegal) immigrants who have considerable greater rights to benefits.

 

[slim]

Simmo spend all your savings on property in Slovakia. It will be a good investment. many European companies have moved their production facilities to Slovakia and the Czech republic.
I believe that these places are the next generation of new wealth and prosperity.
Over the last 20 years I have seen this happen in the far east in Thailand, China, Vietnam and now Laos.

 

[Chalky]

Simmo spend all your savings on property in Slovakia. It will be a good investment. many European companies have moved their production facilities to Slovakia and the Czech republic.
I believe that these places are the next generation of new wealth and prosperity.
Over the last 20 years I have seen this happen in the far east in Thailand, China, Vietnam and now Laos.

Seconded. My housemate is Slovakian and their economy is growing at about 14% a year or something silly. It's also a beautiful country filled with, on the whole, quite quiet people and women who put out after 3 drinks, water included.

Double trouble

 

[sweeney]

Seconded. My housemate is Slovakian and their economy is growing at about 14% a year or something silly. It's also a beautiful country filled with, on the whole, quite quiet people and women who put out after 3 drinks, water included.

Double trouble

Russia is like slovakia in many ways. Except its fucked.

 

[sweeney]

I believe, and I am open to correction on this, other citizens cannot just get benefits willy nilly. This would be conditional. However I cannot advise you as to the nature of those conditions. You should be wary of mixing citizens of the EU up with (illegal) immigrants who have considerable greater rights to benefits.

right thanks for that comrade. So the sweeeny sprog benefits are coz I am a brit? Its all tops mind. I like getting free stuff (except of course that my tax is paying for it)!

 

[fido]

Ok lad herr goes - you do know that normally I would charge for this sort of stuff!

1. There are four freedoms which are sacrosanct in the EU - free movemnet of goods, of persons, of services and of capital.
2. I shall not bore with a lecture on the others but will concentrate on the free movement of people.
3. It is a right enshrined within the EC Treaty, of which we are a signatory and which has been brought into UK law by various statutes including the European Communities Act 1973
4. A brief synopsis is that freedom of movemenjt requires the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality in respect of employment, salary and conditions of work and emplyment. There are exceptions by way of public policy, public security or public health.
5. There is also a concept of European Citizenship which gives each citizen of the union the right to move and reside freely within the terrtory of the members states, subject to limitations and conditions laid down by the European Treaty. (eg think about the supposed limit that will be placed on the Romanians/Bulgarians)
6. There is also a right for the workers family to have right of entry and residence
7. There is a right to equal social and tax advantages as national workers
8. Finally, you will be glad to note, that there is harmonisation of provisions governing entitlement to social security benefits as necessary to support free movement of workers and requires arrangements to be made for aggregation of entitlement contributions made in member states and for payment of benefits whilst in member states

That is a rather wordy explanation but I guess you would like the bottom line, any citizen of the EU can live and work in any other member state of the EU.

I believe, and I am open to correction on this, other citizens cannot just get benefits willy nilly. This would be conditional. However I cannot advise you as to the nature of those conditions. You should be wary of mixing citizens of the EU up with (illegal) immigrants who have considerable greater rights to benefits.

Thanks Rosinacarley - that's a pretty good summation which cuts through the crap of Eurogarbage. The problem as I see it is that those in developed European Nations (UK, France, Germany et al) don't want to go and live or work in newly entered (and arguably underdeveloped nations) and resent their nationals coming here. Perfectly understandable when you you work out that what is really resented are non-EU residents (Somali, Moroccan, Nigerian etc) illegals who are bypassing immigration laws and scooping up oodles of benefits to the detriment of UK taxpayers - it is irresponsible of the press to continue to supress the real identification of those who are taking advantage.

On a further note - a neighbour of mine employed two Polish men to strip and reroof his large shed last summer - they worked for two days (0800 - 1700 each day) and he paid them fifty quid for the job - exploitation or what!

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

Thanks Rosinacarley - that's a pretty good summation which cuts through the crap of Eurogarbage. The problem as I see it is that those in developed European Nations (UK, France, Germany et al) don't want to go and live or work in newly entered (and arguably underdeveloped nations) and resent their nationals coming here. Perfectly understandable when you you work out that what is really resented are non-EU residents (Somali, Moroccan, Nigerian etc) illegals who are bypassing immigration laws and scooping up oodles of benefits to the detriment of UK taxpayers - it is irresponsible of the press to continue to supress the real identification of those who are taking advantage.

On a further note - a neighbour of mine employed two Polish men to strip and reroof his large shed last summer - they worked for two days (0800 - 1700 each day) and he paid them fifty quid for the job - exploitation or what!

I hope your neighbour isn't a policeman, politician or lawyer, or their professional career will be at an end! :lol:

Just a further note to Rosie's excellent summation. The Schengen Agreement arose as part of the Treaty of Amsterdam whereby Member States agreed to implement Community Law enshrined in the Treaty of Rome, to allow the free passage of citizens of Community Member States. It entered into force in 1995.

More detailed information is available from below:
http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33020.htm

 

[Jack77]

It seems to me, as an outsider, that the EU must have seemed like a good idea when it consisted of only wealthy western european countries. Now that membership includes eastern shitholes like Romania, Poland etc. its all turning rapidly to custard.

 

[Nutty]

You need a residents permit to live in some European countries (including the UK, funnily enough, but it doesn't seem to be enforced).

In Spain you have to apply for a resident card after you have been here 6 months. This in fact is not any type of permit to reside but a standard ID Card as carried by all Spanish Citizens. You need it to use a credit card or pay a cheque (PIN machines have yet to catch on), when stopped by the Police etc. You can of course carry your passport 24/7 and claim you have not been in the country for 6 months. But if you wish to purchase a car you need to have a Padron (short name) which is a bit of paper to show you are registered at that address at the town hall. To purchase any large(in cost terms) item you need a NIE (National Economic Number). This is all residents of what ever Nationality.

Nutty

PS this card includes your finger print