Pun's

Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by stoker-steam, Nov 19, 2008.

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  1. I was swinging the Lamp the other day, being " Under Pun " came up, do any of you know where I can get a list of RN punishments, you know No9s, No2's or is that the lot??

    Ta

    Chris
     
  2. Try BR 11.

    SF
     
  3. Thanks chaps,

    I tried the link but could not get the bloomin thing to work,

    Thanks again
     
  4. You realise it isn't an Internet link, it is an Intranet link so if you're trying from a non MOD computer you have no chance.

    SF
     
  5. theres you answer thick as fcuk. Tried them all m8e some more then others
     
  6. OOps ^_^;

    I did not know, I will whizz over to the library and use there MOD Computer, I think its only 20p for a half hour :thanks:

    Have scoured the WWW but there appears to be nowt refering to RN punishments, odd eh. Lots about Flogging and Keel Hauling, nasty business.

    Ta Chaps
     
  7. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I have posted a comlpete list of naval punishments in the past; use the search option and you should find it eventually...
     
  8. I fully expect that you know them all chapter and verse SPB but how many did you write?

    SF
     
  9. What?! ...... They don't do that anymore ? - you guys must have it easy these days then .... ;)
     
  10. Ask Higthepig. He's on record somewhere on RR as having suffered No.1 jankers on three seperate occassions! :lol: It's a World Record! :razz:
     
  11. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I do and I can! But I've cut 'n' pasted half of BR11 since I've been on Rum Ration - s'bout time someone else looked it up. Got more pressing things to be getting on with today... :wink:
     
  12. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Three clicks on the "Search" facility and I found it...

    Rum Ration: Number 9s

    REGULATIONS FOR PUNISHMENTS

    DISMISSAL FROM HER MAJESTY'S SERVICE [No 2]
    1. Dismissal from Her Majesty’s Service should be considered when an offender commits an offence deserving severe punishment, which, taken in conjunction with his background and character, shows that his retention is not likely to be in the interests of the service.

    DETENTION [No 3]
    1. Detention is the only custodial sentence available for offences tried summarily. If the seriousness of an offence indicates that the maximum summary sentence of detention will be insufficient, or that imprisonment may be appropriate, consideration should be given at the outset to having the case tried by court-martial.
    2. Detention may be awarded summarily for a period not exceeding three calendar months; a sentence of 90 days cannot legally be awarded if that period exceeds three calendar months. The maximum sentence that can be awarded over a period covering February in other than a leap year is therefore 89 days. Detention should not normally be awarded for a period of less than 28 days.

    DISRATING OR REDUCTION IN RANK [No 4]
    1. NSDR 54:
    54. An offender may be disrated in accordance with section 43(5) of the Act to any rate in his own branch or to any lower class in his rate, or be reduced in rank, or in the case of the Regulating Branch may be disrated to a rate in his former branch for which he is qualified, provided that no man be disrated or reduced:
    a. below the limits laid down in BR 1066, Advancement Regulations;
    b. below, either actually or relatively, the rating or rank in which he first entered.
    In addition, ratings in sideways entry branches other than the Regulating Branch may be disrated to their former branch if they are disrated below the lowest rate in their sideways entry branch (see BR 1066, Advancement Regulations).

    FINE [No 4A]
    1. a. Officers: For an offence under sections 2 to 42 of the Act, a fine shall not exceed 14 days pay. If the offence merits a higher fine, the case should be referred for court-martial (See NSDR 35).
    b. Ratings: For an offence under sections 2 to 41 of the Act (naval offences) a fine shall not exceed the amount of 28 days' gross pay or, for an offence committed on active service (as defined in NDA s.134), 56 days' gross pay. For an offence under NDA s.42 (civil offences) the maximum fine level on summary conviction is either 28 days (56 on active service) or the maximum level imposed by the civil law if this is less. Additionally where the offence is a civil offence (s.42) and no greater punishment than a fine is permitted (eg. taking a bicycle without authority (see 0641); driving without due care (see 0653); possession of certain article with blades or points (see 0675)) then no punishment above a fine in Table 9-1 may be awarded (NDA s 42(1)(c)).

    SEVERE REPRIMAND [No 4B]
    1. a. Officers: A severe reprimand may be awarded to officers with the approval of the HA/ASA/ It may be awarded, if so approved, in conjunction with a fine [No 4A] and stoppages [No 4D]not exceeding fourteen days’ pay.
    b. Ratings: Severe reprimand may be awarded only to Leading rates and above. It may be awarded, if desirable, in conjunction with the punishments of a fine [No 4A], stoppages [No. 4D], deprivation of good conduct badge [No 7] (but not of the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal unless this is an automatic consequence of a different accompanying
    punishment), stoppage of leave [No 10] and forfeiture of pay for improper absence [No 11], a punishment warrant is required.
    2. The award of severe reprimand for ratings automatically results in a Career Check.

    REPRIMAND [No 4C]
    1. a. Officers: Reprimand may be awarded to officers with the approval of the HA/ASA/ It may be awarded, if so approved, in conjunction with a fine [No 4A] and stoppages [No 4D] not exceeding fourteen days’ pay.
    b. Ratings: Reprimand may be awarded only to Leading rates and above. It may be awarded, if desired in conjunction with the punishments of a fine [No 4A], stoppages [No 4D], deprivation of good conduct badge [No 7] (but not of the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal unless this is an automatic consequence of a different accompanying punishment), stoppage of leave [No. 10] and forfeiture of pay for improper absence [No 11].
    A punishment warrant is not required except in the case of a Warrant Officer.
    2. There are no automatic accompanying penalties, except for Warrant Officers who will automatically incur a Career Check.

    STOPPAGES [No 4D]
    1. Stoppages, that is to say the recovery, by deduction from an offender's pay, of a specified sum by way of compensation, may be awarded in the case of an offence which has occasioned any expense, personal injury, loss or damage (NDA s.43(1)(l). Stoppages are not, however, to be awarded to produce compensation relating to loss of, or damage to, Service property resulting from traffic accidents involving Service personnel driving non-Service vehicles covered by valid insurance policies on service property (see JSP 341 Joint Service Road Transport Regulations).
    2. a. Officers: The maximum summary award is up to, and including, 14 days’ pay, with the approval of the HA,/ASA.
    b. Ratings: The maximum summary award is 28 days' pay. A punishment warrant is required for stoppages exceeding 14 days' pay but not for a lesser amount except where the punishment is for a Warrant Officer. There is no limitation on the award of stoppages awarded by a court-martial, except stoppages for personal injury where a court-martial is bound by the limit of £5000.
    3. The award of stoppages, whether by warrant or not, does not carry any automatic accompanying penalties, except for Warrant Officers who will automatically incur a Career Check.
    4. Before stoppages are awarded it must have been proved, or the accused must have admitted that the expense, personal injury, loss or damage was occasioned by the offence.

    REDUCTION TO THE SECOND CLASS FOR CONDUCT [NO 5]
    1. NSDR. 55:
    55. Every rating who is reduced to the second class for conduct, shall:
    a. forfeit one sixth of his gross pay for the period of reduction to the second class for conduct;
    b. be deprived of leave for the first fourteen days, thereafter being allowed, when possible, up to one day's leave a week at the discretion of the Commanding Officer;
    c. be subject to the routine laid down for the [No 9] punishment of Extra work and drill for the first fourteen days; thereafter performing extra work or drill in the dog watches for not more than one hour a day;
    d. fall in for inspection at such times as the Commanding Officer may appoint;
    e. be deprived of any good conduct badges he may hold, and of the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, if held;
    f. be debarred from advancement to Leading rate or above.
    2. Ratings in the second class for conduct are not to be employed on special or isolated duties.

    DEPRIVATION OF LONG SERVICE AND GOOD CONDUCT MEDAL AND GOOD CONDUCT BADGES [No 7]
    1. Any rating below Warrant Officer to whom a Long Service and Good Conduct Medal has been awarded may be deprived of it summarily. Deprivation shall carry with it the forfeiture of any claim to the additional allowance that may have been earned.
    2. A rating may be deprived of his medal without being deprived of any good conduct badge.
    The Commanding Officer may also at his discretion take away one badge, but not more, without depriving the rating of his medal, if his conduct has been in all other respects satisfactory but this discretion may be exercised in his favour once only (see clause 3h). If a badge should be taken away without loss of the medal, the medal is not to be worn until the badge is regained (see clause 4c).
    3. A rating who receives any of the following punishments shall be deprived of the medal:
    a. Dismissal.
    b. Detention.
    c. Disrating or reduction in rank.
    d. Reduction to the second class for conduct.
    e. Deprivation of two or more good conduct badges.
    f. Deprivation of a badge on a second occasion after the award of the medal.

    EXTRA WORK AND DRILL FOR A PERIOD NOT EXCEEDING FOURTEEN DAYS [No 9]
    1. Ratings below Leading rate may be awarded this punishment for up to fourteen days when they are to be subject to the following routine:
    a. Leave to be stopped.
    b. To turn out half an hour before the hands.
    c. To do extra work or drill during non-working hours from half an hour before the hands turn out until 2100, one hour of which, during the dog watches, to be, if possible, drill or boat pulling.
    d. To be mustered frequently.
    e. To have full time for meals, except dinner, for which half an hour will be allowed; to be employed for the remainder of dinner hour at drill or work.
    f. Drill is to be performed wearing drill order only.

    STOPPAGE OF LEAVE FOR A PERIOD NOT EXCEEDING THIRTY DAYS [No 10]
    1. Stoppage of leave is not to be awarded for more than 30 days. It may be awarded in appropriate cases for any offence whether as the only punishment or with another punishment. It should only be awarded in addition to No. 9 punishment when the period involved is greater than that of No 9 punishment.
    2. Stoppage of leave is not to be awarded with a sentence of detention which is not suspended before committal, or with second class for conduct. If a sentence of detention is to be suspended before committal, stoppage of leave may also be awarded at the discretion of the officer trying
    the case if the offence is one of leave-breaking.
    3. While under stoppage of leave a rating should be allowed to leave the ship or establishment only on duty , except that he may be allowed to proceed on long leave at the discretion of the Commanding Officer. No other penalties are involved except mustering with men under punishment.

    FORFEITURE OF PAY FOR IMPROPER ABSENCE [No 11]
    1. Every rating other than a Warrant Officer who is found guilty of absence without leave or improperly leaving his ship for a period of 24 hours or more is to forfeit one days' pay for every period of 24 hours that he is absent. A day's pay for this purpose is as defined in BR 1950 Naval Pay Regulations, Chapter 34. Periods of absence of less than 24 hours are to be disregarded when assessing forfeiture of pay. In exceptional cases where there is strong mitigation, forfeiture of pay for absence of 24 hours and over may be remitted or dispensed with.

    EXTRA WORK OR DRILL FOR NOT MORE THAN TWO HOURS A DAY FOR A
    PERIOD NOT EXCEEDING SEVEN DAYS [No 14]
    1. Extra work or drill for not more than two hours a day may be awarded for any period not exceeding seven days to men below Leading rate.
    2. Drill is to be performed wearing correct drill order. When drill would have to be carried out in front of civilian onlookers, extra work is to be substituted.
    3. The powers to award extra work and drill [No 14] which may be delegated by a Commanding Officer.

    ADMONITION [No 15]
    1. When a rating other than a Warrant Officer is found guilty of an offence which of itself or in view of mitigating circumstances, is not considered to deserve any more serious punishment, he should be admonished (e.g., for a first trivial offence of improper absence when a forfeiture of pay is not imposed).
     
  13. Here are some linkys for starters...

    No.9s......

    Sgtpepperbands insightful contributions....

    As you will see, there is only really one naval punishment: 9A. All the others were phased out as being too unpleasant for contemporary fluffy matelots. After all, the concept of punishment is soooo outdated and, well, er, punitive. We need to show compassion and hug our errant seamen! :nemo: :nemo:

    As a fundamentalist liberal I hate the idea of punishment full stop. ;)

    PS: Sarge.... there are lots of missing numbers in your list: 1, 6, 8, 12 and 13. Surely these haven't been reassigned to history books? And what of No.1, Higgy's favourite. ;)
     
  14. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    A good helping of Second Class for Conduct was always most effective in my experience....
     
  15. Thanks for the info chaps, very interesting.
    The chap I was talking to (Ex Jack Dusty) was telling me about number two Puns, and that they were not good for the soul, the only thing that scared us was DQ's. I only went in to Pompey DQ's once to help a Chippy hang a big framed painting up, I was working in the Chippy's shop in Nelson for a short while. Its got to be the cleanest place on this planet, they ran those poor sods ragged, scary stuff. I dare say they have long gone, though still visible on Google earth.

    I only got in the Poo three times, (8.5yrs) always pissed as a coot, always seven days number 9's, never a bloody fine ^_^;
     
  16. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Been there - done that. Followed immediately by a spell in RNDQs (which was a lot more fun..!) :oops: :wink:
     
  17. Presuming you mean as 'at the pleasure of' and not staff - and not being too personal as into details, but how did you manage to get to be a reggie - wouldn't being incarcerated have counted against you ? :scratch:

    I had heard during my years, of a Jossman with the corner of his record cut off (supposedly to show the occurrence) , but always thought that a naval myth.

    :)
     
  18. Surely Sarge's spell in DQs gave him insider knowledge when he applied to be a Reggie....?
     

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