Public want conscription reintroduced to tackle yobs...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by NozzyNozzer, Jul 10, 2006.

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  1. Aye

  2. Certainly not

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  3. Maybe

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  4. Other (see my comment below)

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  1. Civvy Street is back to trying undermine the forces: they want to bring back conscription...

    Daily Telegraph: 10 July 2006
    'Bring back National Service to cure yobs'
    By Anil Dawar

    The majority of Britons want National Service to be reintroduced, a survey shows.

    About 69 per cent think that compulsory military service would curb the country's growing yob culture and cut crime.

    The survey, by GfK Media, found that 65 per cent of adults think National Service should be used to reduce overcrowding in prisons.

    National Service ran from 1945 to 1963, with 2.5 million young men conscripted.

    They were used as part of the 100,000-strong occupation force in post-war Germany, to police Palestine and protect Aden and the Suez Canal Zone. Some had an easier time in Singapore, Hong Kong and lesser military bases.

    Although no politicians have called for National Service to be reintroduced to deal with youth crime and misbehaviour, similar style community work schemes have been put forward.

    Last year Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, unveiled a multi-million government scheme, supported by industry, to fund gap years for young people to do voluntary work in Britain and abroad.

    David Cameron, the Tory Party leader, recently suggested a compulsory period of up to four months' voluntary work for all school-leavers.

    According to this latest survey of 1,266 adults, carried out for ITV's Bad Lad's Army programme, 87 per cent worry about Britain's yob culture.

    Only 19 per cent thought that a spell in the military would not stop youngsters behaving badly.

    When asked how long that spell should be, two years received the biggest vote, with 33 per cent, and 61 per cent saying that women should do their bit as well as men.

    Nozzy (former Yob: ie. ex-15 year old :x )
  2. Yeah, that would be good. Drag the navy down by bringing in young chavs that don't want to be there. Discipline is hard enough to maintain with motivated volunteers, but conscripts? And what do you do with them when they disobey, well you can't give them a good scudding that for sure.
    We would be better off relaxing the rules a little in society and let the police crack their skulls a little. A few fat lips and thick ears might shock them. Will that happen though?
  3. Lingy

    Got it in one, Pussers is not the person to sort out the ills of the modern society even if they could revert to 1940 attitudes and actions.

    Social Engineers and education experts, together with weak parents caused it and its up to them to sort it.

  4. And this is the guy Nozzy called a liberal elsewhere.

    First of all let me say I agree, a professional military system is not the place to try to endow the youth with good citizen qualities.

    Having said that I think there is a place for having some form of service to the nation on leaving school. There are many conservation and humanitarian tasks that justnever get done because there is not the money to pay for the muscle power, 9-12 months of that sort of work coud well change the perspective some of todays youngsters have on life in general.

    If you also made volunteering for the armed forces, the police, fire brigades etc grounds for exemption perhaps the quality of recruits there may improove also.

  5. Only if it was part of a larger scheme like Maxi described. People could volunteer for different options which would have different time commitments and conditions, e.g. full service in the military for 3 years and full pay, 12 months in some 3rd world village unpaid, or 10 years unpaid part time service (2 days a month every month) to your community.

    Also people would forfeit all rights to vote and benefits for non-compliance and foreign nationals that spend more than 6 months a year in the country should be included.
  6. Peter

    Just because I feel discipline and responsibility are sadly lacking in todays society neither prevents me from being Liberal nor believing these ills are attributable to 30 years of Social Engineering and a failed Education System.

    No form of Public service will work while the "Conscripts" refuse to accept any responsibility and are then allowed to walk away from them.

  7. Maybe not totally Armed forces conscription,but get them rebuilding houses and roads.Teach them a trade and some pride in doing a good job.Or just stick them in the front line!
  8. I know, but it did make the point that yes we have let things get a trifle out of hand and we have grandparents today who think the easy way out of trouble is to threaten violence first. If us bleeding heart liberals think things are out of hand then perhaps they really are.

    The point of enforced public service is to make people take responsibility for themselves and their colleagues and others. To be of any use our new style conscripts will need training and that will needa spell in a training camp, preferably 25 miles from the nearest night club or pub with the local bus running on alternate tuesdays, and taxi drivers who can make 25 miles ring up like 75.

    I don't see public service as an easy option done sensibly and it will not work for every one, just as the old national service made some excellent crooks and swindlers whilst it made others model citizens.

  9. What about using the carrot instead of the stick? Would making time spent performing public service tax deductable encourage more people to volunteer? Start them of for selfish reasons and eventually their hearts might grow three sizes :mrgreen:
  10. Personally I'm totally against the whole compulsory national service thing. Once upon a time I thought it was a good idea but I really feel that it would be disasterous for us now. We have enough to contend with all over the world as it is - but at least we do so with willing & professional men and women. The points made earlier about what to do if the national service person simply doesn't want to play are prudent. They end up with an inferior level of training, get sent to somewhere like Afghanistan and screw it up for themselves and others who don't deserve it.

    I really feel that this is another example of the Forces being victims of their own success. If we weren't such shining examples of professionalism and always able to get the job done there would be less likelihood of this type of meddling.

    Something a little more community based would be much better. It could even be a final requirement for completing their GCSE's or A Levels to win a leaving school diploma.
  11. prehaps something of a halfway house then? 6 months of miltary basic training, old style, to give themselves pride in what they do, how they look and how to work as a team, how to live and organise your life and all sorts of good stuff with the option to go on to the service of thier choice on a further period of time. That way everyone wins society get's people who have at least had a taste of pride and teamwork and the forces get the kids who might be lost to drugs or otherwise, it gives the kids a good chance and it gives the forces the people who want to be there "doing thier bit".......might be a tad simplistic but hey who said it had to be complicated? 8O .........and it'd give the old and the bold something to do :lol:
  12. I'll go with that. Anything which teaches them a little respect for others, pride in what they can achieve (legally) and how to get a decent haircut would be ok in my book. Three months might be enough though - you wouldn't want to place too much strain on the system. :wink:

  13. Conscription would not work in any of todays armed forces.Given the attitude of a good majority of the youth of today i stress majority and not all co's there are a lot of gooduns out there also :mrgreen:
  14. the last thing i would want is little scrotes getting weapon training, ffs its easy enough to get a weapon if you know the right people or places, and i'd rather not have to walk around knowing the idiots can shoot straight and are unlikely to get a jam/blockage etc because of weapon maintenance
  15. I think conscription would be ideal -- as before-- from the age of 18 for 2years.

    It would definately get the un employables out of the Social Security free handouts queues .As mentioned it would also bring the ethnic minorities into a British way of life.

    National service in the old days ---- bad as it was made out it seemed to put a lot of young people onto a steady way of life. The hardships weren't unbearable either.
    Also the wearing of uniform is a great leveller --no one is special or noticeable.

    Pay as in the old days for National servicemen should be kept at minimum because the conscripts never really become fully trained within the two years.
  16. Get them into a blue suit and out of Burberry....... Chav scum ! :twisted:
  17. Do we have enough ships/shore establishments to cope with the influx these days. I think not !
  18. Sorry Greenie but I could disagree more. The vast majority of National Servicemen hated it but put up with it because they were born and raised in WW2, or just post it, their parents and grandparents had probably served in one of the WW and society was less "self-centric". The current training system has (is still being) dragged into thew 21st century yet in this thread we have people advocating returning to intimidation and physical violence as incentives to learning. What happens when that instructor is charged or returns to training volunteers? As for pay differentials, give me a break. The bad feeling the introduction of Pay 2000 caused would be nothing by comparision to deliberately paying conscripts a lower rate of pay, would that even be legal, probably not. If something has to be introduced I think BeerBad and J650 are looking in the right direction...away from the armed forces!

  19. I cant see national service working in today's society. Bad Lads army and all that is great TV and the people on it know that. Maybe if the yobs and thugs who are given community service actually turned up for it may help. Possibly use more in the community, ie clearing up litter, graffiti like they should be doing. Stats already show that most dont bother turning up for their community service punishment and know the cops are undermanned to chase them up.
  20. chief tiff,

    despite the fact that the MOD is selling vast tracts of land and "disused" bases there are still a number (don't ask me where right now!) of them which are there with the infrastructure still mainly in place and with a minimum of initial outlay could be brought back into use, we're not talking major revamps in accomdation, they can deal with the same standards we have had to (up untill very recently). The "new recruits" would be doing the basic base maintenence (cleaning, painting, grass cutting, weeding etc) so the only staff would be MOD gaurds, a small spo(Navy, Army, RAF) team, catering staff and the training staff. It's all too simple to work, I know.....but a man can dream, can't he????

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