Proposed Carbon Tax for Airlines

[Seadog]

Flights within Europe will cost up to £6 more but airlines will still not pay the full environmental cost of their emissions under proposals published by the EU yesterday.

Daily Telegraph

Even if it does go through, it won't reduce the number of flights nor the number of people taking them. Airline travel is still unbelievably cheap. I still pay the same to go from Heathrow to West Coast USA as I did twenty five years ago (same airline).

It'll take more than this to stop the lights going out. Binning road tax and ramping up tax on petrol/diesel with appropriate concessions/refunds may discourage driving. Raising the driving age, ban decorative lights, illuminated shop signs (not the emergency exit), stop building cars with engines over xxx kW, improve rail travel. No votes in it!

Invest in nuclear power ( but not for aircraft) and start thinking about what to do when the uranium runs out, because it will.

 

[slim]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & sounds like a duck then its a duck!

Another tax from the government, its got nothing to do with global warming. Why are the government not using electric powered cars for short trips in the capital? Why do the commons & lords not have solar panels fitted? Why are all the official cars limousines which are carrying one person? Why does two jags need 2 jags?

This is more crap from a government looking for reasons to tax more items.

Lets face it until we get the worlds major polluter on board, the USA then anything we do as a small country will have little effect.

The government would have been more believable if it had proposed sanctions against the USA until they took a more positive approach to the global warming situation. Same goes for China another polluter

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & sounds like a duck then its a duck!

Another tax from the government, its got nothing to do with global warming. Why are the government not using electric powered cars for short trips in the capital? Why do the commons & lords not have solar panels fitted? Why are all the official cars limousines which are carrying one person? Why does two jags need 2 jags?

This is more crap from a government looking for reasons to tax more items.

Lets face it until we get the worlds major polluter on board, the USA then anything we do as a small country will have little effect.

The government would have been more believable if it had proposed sanctions against the USA until they took a more positive approach to the global warming situation. Same goes for China another polluter

They are listed buildings and the roofs have also been used by lowly Staff in Summer for sunbathing... It's not just Stokers who need bronzing... :wink:

 

[Shakey]

<rant>

Wind farms really grip my shit, cluttering up the countryside and now the oggin with great big windmills that only work half of the time anyway ie. when there's a bit of wind.

If you want wind power what's wrong with having a large turbine on every street corner, towns are alerady cluttered up.

Solar panels in Britain - hah! They'd only be good for about four months of the year.

What we need, IMHO, is tidal power. Britain has got some of the strongest tidal streams in the world and it's 24/7 - there's always tide going in or out somewhere around our coast. Also, the turbines could sit on the sea bed out of the way.

Supplement this with bio-fuels and we could hopefully be self sufficent, more or less.

Needed a rant. Sorry.

</rant>

 

[Jimmy_Green]

Employ illegal immigrants and prisoners to run on treadmills attached to generators.

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

Slim makes several good points there. It is unfortunate that HM's Opposition Party are now trying to out-green the Government. Incidentally, how many were aware that diesel fuel for marine craft (including inland waterways) is to have Duty levied against it next year?

Once again we seem hell bent on being leaders of the World in combating global warming, whatever the cost. From what I can understand of the proposals, any aviation fuel tax would have to be Europewide. If it wasn't, airlines would be tankering fuel from the point where it costs least. The analogy is road hauliers from across the channel having sufficient tank capacity to avoid buying the 2nd dearest fuel in Europe. There is a definite flight safety aspect to this practice being applied to aircraft. Of course, the Country nextdoor to the one with the cheapest AVTUR shouldn't expect to be selling much of it or gathering much tax. There seems no firm intention to spend this additional tax on sustainable energy.

Shakey makes a good point about tidal power. The problem with that, though, is the impact it would have on our marine and coastal wildlife. I can't remember where I read it but, apparently, strong electrical fields have an adverse effect on fish and molluscs. We already know what effects wind farms have on birds. Anyway, who gives a sod about the wildlife? They are all parasites that pay no taxes and have no voting rights.

 

[Backpacker1uk]

Just wondering why in Ireland you can stick cans in the same bin as paper and cardboard. Yet in the UK one person was taken to task for adding cardboard to the paper recycling bin.

How many actually take cardboard to be recycled and what is the emissions on that task if they do much better to have it collected.

If this Bliar govt was so keen on reducing the fall out from aircraft why are they still building more runways and terminals and now they are talking of pushing the aircraft onto the runway by tractor to save fuel emissions. What is the safe warm up time for a engine??

I worked at a 2000MW power station for many moons. The plan was to build a desulpurisation plant to take out the acid before it reached the stack. Acid would be sold to the ICI. This would create more jobs and help the environment. And safeguard the jobs in the Lancashire and Yorkshire coal fields

Thatcher privatised the electric board and the plan was then no chance the shareholders will not allow this kind of investment.

Best to buy low sulphur coal from abroad South Americawas the one of many.

So the coal fields went kaput!!

Yes wave power is the way forward River Mersey can give a good bore on full flow one of many.

 

[Maxi_77]

So the coal fields went kaput!!

And a good thing too, those mines killed many and condemmed those who survived to a lingering death from the many incurable disease aquired working in those mines.

My ex's grandfather died long before his time, his lungs destroyed in the mines, and he was a mine manager.

Peter

 

[Wheel-spanner]

Well said on the Wind Turbines Shakey.

I had a young sales lad in B+Q the other week trying to flog me one for the house. He just couldn't get it why I laughed, and so I pointed out that he was trying to sell a 1kw wind turbine, that was right next to a display selling 2kw fan heaters and 1kw security lights...

He still didn't get it!

 

[ditdahditdah]

This aircraft tax is exactly that, a tax. The more vociferous airline operators, Ryanair, EasyJet etc, are all saying that the emissions from their aircraft have been reduced considerably due to investment in new aircraft/engines and, because they tend to fly at near capacity, the CO2 output per passenger betters the singleton in his car, I have no reason to doubt them. Whilst he is calling it a “green measure†Her Majesties Minister for Money isn’t even seriously trying to hide the fact that its nothing more than another scheme to extract even more folding stuff from our pockets, does he really think we are as green as he is cabbage looking?

Something needs to be done to reduce CO2 output, I think we all realise that, but whacking 20 quid or so on a flight will do little, I for one will not be reducing my flying habits, (serving in London and living in the far North of Scotland reduces my travel options somewhat!)

I quite agree with Shakey in that wind mills will do little other than make a mess of the countryside, they are stuck far from where any electricity would be useful with the majority of the power generated lost in transmission. If windmills are the way ahead then they need to be close to where the power generated is used. There is a very good example of this in Findhorn, Moray, where the locals enjoy cheap power from 4 mill/generators. The only other benefit these huge wind farms them is to the consortiums who operate them who suck up billions of taxpayers dosh in subsidies.

So what’s the answer? Too complex, but for me let’s not totally dismiss the solar panel out of hand as part of the solution; they can generate electricity even on the cloudiest of days, they are generally out of sight and can even me manufactured to look like roof tiles if there are visual impact concerns. If every South Easterly/Southerly/South Westerly facing roof had panels on them, the generating potential would be huge. Of course they are not cheap but if the subsidy thrown at windfarms was redirected to homeowners to allow them to generate, store and sell any excess power back to the grid, I for one would grab it with both hands. Of course this won’t happen as the power companies will lobby parliament because their huge profits will increasingly go down the pan.

 

[Seadog]

Wheel-spanner boasted

I had a young sales lad in B+Q the other week

I don't think we want to know! To Lil's with your sexual conquests.

Serious head back on: Even if a 1kW generator only supplies 20% of the requirement 50 % of the time, it's a saving. I wouldn't mock it though I can understand you may not see your money back during your ownership of the house. (Take the windmill with you). I believe there are moves afoot to have such devices fitted to all new builds along with solar panels.

ditdahditdah wrote

they are stuck far from where any electricity would be useful with the majority of the power generated lost in transmission.

One reason for transmission of electricity over distance at very high voltages is to reduce the voltage drop and therefore losses. Do windmill wigglies 'travel' at low voltage?