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Promotion To leading hand

Jakey2912

Newbie
Hello,
I was wondering how long it usually takes somebody starting at the bottom as a ETWE to get promoted to a leading hand?

Thanks
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
It varies greatly. In any event, under the current contract, anyone not passing for leading rate within 12 years will be discharged at the 12 year point.

Timescales depend on the individual & the branch, but subject to confirmation from those currently in the WE branch, I'd be surprised if three to five years wasn't achievable.
 

Taztiff

War Hero
It varies greatly. In any event, under the current contract, anyone not passing for leading rate within 12 years will be discharged at the 12 year point.

Timescales depend on the individual & the branch, but subject to confirmation from those currently in the WE branch, I'd be surprised if three to five years wasn't achievable.

My lad joined as ETWE 3 years ago next week.
He was back classed medically for 4 months in Collingwood and joined his first ship about 22 months ago.
He passed all task books but purposely held back so that he wasn't on the LH selection signal this Sept/Oct (Wanted to stay on board and get more experience before being rated up - read to say, on deployment and wanted more pi£$ ups!).
He is expected by his DO to be on the next selection in March.

So in answer, as @Ninja_Stoker says - can be done in 3 years. In fact there were guys in his entry who were put on course without having had a ship.
 
It varies greatly. In any event, under the current contract, anyone not passing for leading rate within 12 years will be discharged at the 12 year point.

Timescales depend on the individual & the branch, but subject to confirmation from those currently in the WE branch, I'd be surprised if three to five years wasn't achievable.

No 3 Badge AB's any more?
 

slim

War Hero
In my day there were a number of 3 badge ODs and they were extremely useful.
They all knew their way around and were happy to do the jobs most ABs hated. PO or CPO messman twen decks party, they enjoyed all the so called gash jobs and made the most of them. Kept the youngsters happy cos they didn't need to do misemployment so often.
These 3 badgers were often the salt of the navy, they did not want promotion or the responsibilities which came with it but loved the RN way of life.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
In my day there were a number of 3 badge ODs and they were extremely useful.
They all knew their way around and were happy to do the jobs most ABs hated. PO or CPO messman twen decks party, they enjoyed all the so called gash jobs and made the most of them. Kept the youngsters happy cos they didn't need to do misemployment so often.
These 3 badgers were often the salt of the navy, they did not want promotion or the responsibilities which came with it but loved the RN way of life.
A double-edged sword. They are indeed experienced & knowledgeable, often an asset, but frequently they can be more useful if they apply their acquired knowledge & experience in a more useful manner by advancing themselves, spreading to knowledge base and earning more money for themselves.

For those prepared to get off their backsides and advance themselves a three badge AB is sometimes a toxic, disruptive, messdeck lawyer who prefers to be a big fish in a small pond. In my personal experience some three badge ABs can become entrenched messdeck bullies and the cause of individuals on a first sea draft submitting notice to quit due to their incessant dripping. Possibly that's the reason we get rid of ABs after twelve years nowadays. Obviously there's good and bad everywhere in the service, but three badge ABs are not something the Navy seems to want anymore.
 
@Ninja_Stoker. From how you present it, with "Three Strikes (=Stripes) and you are out", one could expect a corresponding drop in the PVR rate?

Or won't that drop become evident until the very last of that ilk has gone outside?

Mmmm, perhaps not...
 

pompeyexpat

War Hero
I have to agree with NS. I've known a couple of great 3 badge AB's in my time, but in my experience the majority of them are still AB's with good reason, which I have found often makes them quite bitter and potentially toxic on the mess deck.

That said, I'm not a fan of the current trend for pushing our people forward regardless of whether they are personally ready or not. I've seen a good LH leave because gapping meant that he was being employed as a PO when wasn't ready. Professionally he was capable, but he wasn't ready to take on the extra responsibility at that time. There is a certainly a place for an old and bold killick that is happy where he is and is an expert in what he does. Personally I wouldn't have wanted to still be in the JR's mess in my late 30's or early 40's, but I do believe there is value in having older, wiser heads in there.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
PVR is only available in the first six months of service, which means very few complete training and get to sea soon enough to submit pvr, but they can submit notice after completing training and 30 months return of service and request early release. In other words, after or towards the end of a first sea draft or frontline squadron draft.

I'm not advocating any particular preference, merely reflecting upon the 12 years & out rule for those who do not advance themselves. I've seen inexperienced killicks undermined & bullied by badgemen, that's for sure, but then it was the same with those given accelerated advancement such as tiffs. It's interesting nowadays with more and more people joining aged up to 37 with Leading Rates as young as 20/21 so you could have ABs serving who are 49.
 
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