Promotion System LH - CPO

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by sinbad, Aug 30, 2006.

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  1. Is everyone happy with the promotion system within the RNR ?
    Some units seem to be v top heavy with L/Hs, POs and CPOs, from all lists.
    Other Units depend on limited L/H's and SNR's to run the Divisional system, there seems to be an inbalance on the whole. I appreciate that CMR looks at the big picture but i feel the Units functionality needs to be addressed also, as we are to run our Units as a ships company ie the Divisional System, which cannot be run efficently with an inadequate number of leaders. Also how many times have you heard 'how did they get promoted' some Units have defence writing down to a T and subsequently promotions follow. Should there be fleet boards again ?
  2. Promotion in the RNR must be a joke, I have 1 RNR LtCdr and 2 RNR petty Officers working with me and they are all useless.
  3. Those media operations staff - humph!!

  4. who woke you up flip flop you knobber
  5. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Oooh look, mazza_magoo has gone just like Bill & Ben
  6. Unfortunately they chop and change the branches so much in the RNR it makes it very difficult to get promotion anywhere. we have 2 PO's at our place, one a medic and one a sparker. None of them know the first thing about GSSR which leaves us instructorless.

    Both of them are top blokes and this is in no way critisism of them but when something like whats happened with GSSR happens regional weekends should be set up to re train these people into something that is actually useful.

    i was just getting comfortable with comms and they gave me a rifle and some rope - i struggle to tie my laces!

    PS. anyone out there with these spare PO's and leading hands could they please send them to Ceres C/O HMS Sherwood. We have the people to become leading hands but unfortunatley the training sylabus means we have to go to sea as GSSR before we can do the leadership course, despite going to sea as comms several times.

  7. "Promotion in the RNR must be a joke, I have 1 RNR LtCdr and 2 RNR petty Officers working with me and they are all useless."

    It's just a fair return for some of the useless Permanent Staff in the past sent out to the RTUs... :wink:
  8. Fact.....You are more than welcome to call me a knobber to my face but i guess that will involve some guts!
  9. Now, now children. we all know that there are good and bad in all people.

    Having said that i would love to see some of the RN chaps that mock the RNR come and do my job with only two hours training a week and the odd weekend here and there.

    Any takers?

    I've been on board ships where i know more than some of the RN lads on board and i know that i'm not fully competent in my branch.

    Thats a very sweeping statement you made there flipflop. We had a PSI who left and when they checked his drawers and cupboards he had RNR paperwork hidden everywhere. And they were telling us it was our faoult we didnt get paid.
  10. Lets face it there is good and bad everywhere in the mob and civvy street..!!

    and well bad PSI's across the RTU's, their like assholes everyones got at least one..!!
  11. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    The problem is not simple - the RNR's role is to support the RN, not to provide ideal manning at RTCs. However, in providing support to the RN, its obviously necessary that a certain scheme of complement within an RTC is needed to maintain the Divisional System.

    Should there be shortcomings in a unit's Divisional Organisation, then the Whole Unit Assessment should capture these; with respect to poor report writing again following each selection board there's a quality assessment report issued to the unit identifying strengths and weaknesses in the reports. Certainly at my last unit this resulted in training sessions for all DOs and DSRs which complemented the "Thin Blue Line" sessions very well. The feedback from the following set of reports submitted certainly reflected an improvement.

    The current system has its failings, certainly, but having seen both systems at work, i.e. unit complement vs RNR scheme of complement, and in today's environment with the reduced manning levels (compared to 1990) the unit scheme of complement could not work - there's not enough real jobs in the RN to support a full specialisation scheme of complement at each unit. The alternative, I guess, would be to restrict number of specialisations offered at certain units but again this would be less than ideal.

    In short I think there are the necessary "checks and balances" in the system at the moment, its just that a) they're possibly not visible to those most affected by the promotion boards selection (or not as the case may be), and b) they're not a quick fix - it could take several years for improvements to be seen.
  12. Well said FlagWagger.

    Another problem of course is that at an RNR unit you just have whoever happens to be a member of that ships' company. If you're short of GSSR SRs then what can you do? You certainly can't draft anyone in to fill an empty billet. This is just a feature of how the RNR is.
    That said there's no point in just giving up - I'd like to think that at most units we'd be able to muddle through and sort something out. That is after all how most of the RNR seems to operate and most of the time it does alright.
  13. I agree with both of flag wagger & lurchs last entries. Lurch is absolutely right we do "muddle through and sort it out", which is my point exactly if each unit had more input into the promotion of L/Hs & SNRs (as in the good old days, fleet boards etc...which where only held when billets became vacant !) the problem in some units could be rectified). Although I don't think Whole Ships assessments over a long w/e can see the unit as it is through out the year. The weeks up to the WSA are usually frantic ironing out (or should i say hiding) any problems, i've see Senior Officers telling JNRs what they need to say when asked certain questions !
    i'm not using this thread to knock WSA.
  14. Promotion within units could also help resolve the downward trend of retention which is partly caused by shipmates being repeatedly passed over for promotion. How many ABs has each Unit got with service of 10 -12 years or more ? (I know some of them are happy there, but some are not and have all the right ticks in the right boxes each year but are let down by poor defence writting).It also helps if the ships company see others being promoted it helps inspire them to stay as someday they will attain the same heights.

  15. I must admit, I've often thought "I can't believe he/she has got that PSI draft" I, personally would give my left Nad for the job at Eaglet (or any RTU for that matter) but unfortunately, although I've become available at the right time the job had already gone :cry:

    I started my RN career with the RNR (briefly as as JS(MW)2 in the MCM10 days) and would love to be able to pass on my experience to those who would value it as opposed to some of the regular lads and lasses today who are only interested in time off and their next run ashore (majority of them anyway)
  16. Eight years and counting...
  17. good lad on yer way to being a 3 badge AB.
  18. Forgive me, 36 years RN service (Boy Seaman (Ganges) to Lt Cdr (X) and the following 13 years as a MoD Civil Service (Retired Officer grade) - I am appalled by the lack of promotion prospects (and recognition) for senior and junior ratings in the RNR. Call me 'Mr Old Fashioned' but it seems to me that career progression (whether regular or reserve service) is an integral part of motivation and thus retention. It isn't just a matter of status - recognition of increased ability and achievement in the service has always been rewarded with promotion - it's the only way (until pay banding) that increased skills could be recognised (I recognise that money aint necessarily important to RNR). From my perspective as a RO within the MoD and employed within a major establishment, the RNR (FTRS or not) ratings get the short end of the stick whilst the officers seem to be promoting themselves and awarding each other lots of medals. It's about time that the RNR hierarchy recognised the fundamental truths behind the Divisional system that they once (possibly) observed:

    Nuture your people
    Provide opportunities for advancement and promotion
    Educate and ensure their welfare
    Seek to develop their skills
    Reward their achievements
  19. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    One of the barriers to promotion in recent years has been the continual buggering about with specialisations. When I joined, I had taskbooks to get me from RO2(T) right up to CY along with a career plan which identified the necessary training courses and experience required. Since the early-mid 1990s the situation has been less clear.

    I'll stick with the example of the Comms branch, but I'm sure parallels can be drawn for other branches. First of all T & G were replaced by Comms(Sea) and Comms(Data) - these new specialisations had all the right traning supoport material, i.e. taskbooks, lesson plans, courses and career plans; however this material was not updated and became outdated. Add into this a certain DSOT(R) deciding to alter the syllabus "on the fly" and the situation became even less clear. This made it difficult for all the necessary "ticks in the box" to be achieved and with the divergence between the RNR and the RN Comms worlds' when people went away on ORT, the experience offered did not fully meet the outdated requirements of the RNR!

    Then came GSSR, a reaction by DNRES (or a certain DSOT(R) I think) to the employment of the RNR during Telic. The establishment of GSSR was announced effectively by rumour control following a comments made by DNRES staff at one Reserve Unit during their annual inspection. The roumour that "the comms branch is going dabber" circulated quickly and resulted in a significant demoralisation of comms. The formal RNRTM that introduced GSSR followed eventually.

    The GSSR RNRTM set out the training required and the promotion rules for a five-year transitional period; the rules simply said that although someone was GSSR, they should continue training against their previous specialisation's requirements until a suitable transition point was reached - promotion during this period would be judged against the old specialisation qualifications for this period. Given that many units ignored this and immediately binned comms training and started training comms rates as gun-toting dabbers, the promotion prospects of these people were immediately reduced!

    To add to the confusion, the development of GSSR did not proceed at the hoped for rate and consequently promotion has been further hampered by a lack of objective career plans! Until an objective career plan supported by task books and approrpiate training amterial is produced by CMR in conjunction with the GSSR FE, the current patchy approach to promotion will unfortunately remain :(

    Agreed 110%!
  20. Have been informed now that dont bother even think about doing an LRCC until the next training year at least.!!! it could be 2008 before I get the chance dependant on availability and work commitments....thats means at least 2 years waiting to have a crack at my PO's and then another year to do my POLC before I actually get the rate....what is the f**king point....!!!!

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