Promotion Boards

#41
scabz said:
Having witnessed a couple of selection boards for LH and PO, I'd make a few observations:
- Personal knowledge of a candidate has no influence, it's all down to what's in the written reports
- Written reports vary greatly in quality, ticking "VStrong" and giving high competence scores is useless if it's not backed up by strong performance and stronger potential
- Some reporting officers confuse strong performance with strong potential, the two are not the same
- People are selected because they come across in their written reports as better than the other candidates
- The selection board is an excellent way to get a view, based on reports alone, of candidates potential. Unfortunately, if the quality of report writing does not accurately reflect the candidate, that's not the boards fault.
- Selection is based on "merit" as defined. If reports don't include all aspects of merit, then you're starting from a position of weakness (perhaps what's not written might be as relevant as what is written).
- Duffers can get good write-ups
- Top blokes can get poor write-ups
- The board itself is not a lottery, they select the strongest candidates based on their reports.
- The lottery is whether individuals take charge of their own reports, and get the reports they deserve, because the boards will pick the best candidates based on the reports (and on nothing else).
- If you think you've done something impressive, or noteworthy during the year, make sure your DO knows about it, so that they've got the option to include it.
- Sometimes the board only needs to pick one or two from a selection of excellently written-up candidates, that's when the choice is really difficult
I looked at my own reports after the first board I witnessed and realised I could have been written more favourably on many occasions
I'd recommend that all DOs witness a selection board. Then they'd realise how much better their write-ups could be.
Well put - I agree with you 100%. DOs, and more importantly HoDs (generally 2RO & often mentor for 1RO) should indeed witness a prom board - all they have to do is contact the WOWTR in the proms section.

Lamri - Have to disagree with you. One board member will not get a guy selected for merit promotion unless it is evident to all that, based on the written evidence in front of them, he/ she is worthy.
 
#42
Shipmate it was a fact not opinion.
If the reports are relatively equal and someone says "well I know this guy and he deserves a promotion" *DING* magic wand is waved :)
 
#43
Dear all

Again not bitter as such, only threaders with the perceived injustice of it all.

Thanks for all your words of wisdom on the subject and I look forward to having the same chat next year!!

JD

Out
 
#44
I was bitter about not being selected, so when asked if I wanted to sign on after my 22 told my DO to ram it and went outside.
Surprise surprise, civie street is worse that the RN for promotion.
As a field engineer I was extremely happy, what upset me was seeing most of the guys promoted were yes men. So get over it that's life in a blue suit and also a blazer and trousers.
 

scabz

Lantern Swinger
#45
scabz said:
Sometimes the board only needs to pick one or two from a selection of excellently written-up candidates, that's when the choice is really difficult
Lamri said:
If the reports are relatively equal and someone says "well I know this guy and he deserves a promotion" *DING* magic wand is waved :)
So what we're saying is, if there's nothing significant to choose between the written reports, then personal knowledge might sway the other members of the board. But the reports have to be equal, as you say. So given the choice is difficult, there might be an opportunity to influence the other board members. That's hardly a "magic wand" though.
I don't believe anyone is going to be rail-roaded at a selection board into accepting a candidate whose reports do not merit selection.
 
#46
I would totally and implicitly agree that promotion is based on the quality of reports written. Quite simply there are too many Officers and Senior Rates out there who do not take the time and effort to write reports in the manner that they would expect to be put into their own.

However I do agree with Lamri that there are occasions when promotion is a case of who you know and who you blow! As the saying goes "Life in a blue suit" chaps!

Have a nice day and better luck next time.
IDOITDEEPER
 
#47
scabz said:
Lamri said:
If the reports are relatively equal and someone says "well I know this guy and he deserves a promotion" *DING* magic wand is waved :)
So what we're saying is, if there's nothing significant to choose between the written reports, then personal knowledge might sway the other members of the board. But the reports have to be equal, as you say. So given the choice is difficult, there might be an opportunity to influence the other board members. That's hardly a "magic wand" though.
I don't believe anyone is going to be rail-roaded at a selection board into accepting a candidate whose reports do not merit selection.
No, what I AM saying is that I KNOW that if you know someone on the board, then you are far more likely to be promoted (at least in MY branch, anyway).
I KNOW this.
I WILL NOT give names on here though, so don't bother asking.
 
#48
One thing comes obvious here guys you all sign your RORRS3 so if you are not happy with the content why the fcuk don't you have the bollocks to say to your DO that you are not happy with the report and ask for a more detailed report. After all I believe you still have to sign that you are happy with it before it is forwarded to the selection boards. Every PO that I thought worthy of promotion got selected on either my first or second report if in doubt tackle your DO.
 

scabz

Lantern Swinger
#50
Lamri, I think we're probably agreeing with one another, I don't doubt your observation. I suspect that you are in a branch where there are high quality candidates for a limited number of promotions. If you can't slide a cigarette paper between the quality of any of them, based on the written report alone, personal knowledge might be enough to make the difference.

My point is that personal knowledge of a board member is not sufficient, on its own, to get someone selected if their written reports are not as strong as other candidates. I'm defending the integrity of the board process based on my, admittedly limited, experience. The few that I've seen have impressed me, especially regarding the care and trouble taken to be fair to all candidates.
So saying, I've not witnessed boards for all branches........but I don't think you're saying that candidates with weak reports are being selected because one board member railroads the others. If they are, then I'm wrong and the selection process is being abused.
 
#51
Lamri said:
Shipmate it was a fact not opinion.
If the reports are relatively equal and someone says "well I know this guy and he deserves a promotion" *DING* magic wand is waved :)
My old boss sat on a promotions board and he knew one the candidates and he was not allowed to pass judgement on the guy, it was down to the other members of the board to decide.
 
#52
I'm only saying what I know to be true guys, I've no reason to lie about it.
Like I said, I can't name names on here, it really wouldn't be fair to those involved, albeit innocently.
 
#53
Tartan_Army_Sailor said:
Lamri said:
Shipmate it was a fact not opinion.
If the reports are relatively equal and someone says "well I know this guy and he deserves a promotion" *DING* magic wand is waved :)
My old boss sat on a promotions board and he knew one the candidates and he was not allowed to pass judgement on the guy, it was down to the other members of the board to decide.
Unfortunately the way that the RN is shrinking it will in the future be difficult to get guys on the board who do not know the candidates
 
#54
stan_the_man said:
One thing comes obvious here guys you all sign your RORRS3 so if you are not happy with the content why the fcuk don't you have the bollocks to say to your DO that you are not happy with the report and ask for a more detailed report. After all I believe you still have to sign that you are happy with it before it is forwarded to the selection boards. Every PO that I thought worthy of promotion got selected on either my first or second report if in doubt tackle your DO.
Stan - that's not the case I'm afraid otherwise we'd have every man and his dog complaining about their reports with the result that the whole system would grind to a halt because nobody agreed with what someone else wrote.

When someone signs the bottom of their RORRS3 they are signing to say that they have been given a copy. That's it, nothing more. If they have a drip about their write up then they need to go the representation route. However, with the advent of JPA appraisals (OJAR and SJAR), things are changing. You now have an opportunity to point out errors in grammar and punctuation etc in addition to content - I do believe tho' that if you cannot reach agreement with the 1RO and 2RO then a 3RO has the final say (something like that anyway).
 
#56
Lamri said:
Aren't we meant to have a PAD to remedy that kind of thing?
I believe it's known as an MPAR now.

In my experience many DOs are well meaning but often aren't fully aware of what to write to give their man the best possible chance at the board.

Sometimes they need a little 'guidance'.

It worked for me. :whew:
 
#57
Take the view that you are far too good at your present level that if you got promoted they would lose those skills into a management role totally unsuitable for you...
 
#58
dhoby_bucket said:
Take the view that you are far too good at your present level that if you got promoted they would lose those skills into a management role totally unsuitable for you...
I never thought about it like that.

Still Sh1t when I see nobbers getting made up but that gives me some comfort.

JD
 

wurz

Lantern Swinger
#59
dhoby_bucket said:
Take the view that you are far too good at your present level that if you got promoted they would lose those skills into a management role totally unsuitable for you...
What complete bollox. Nobody doesn't get promoted for being too good where they are. If it's because of the latter part it's precisely because you may be perceived as being unsuitable in a higher role. As has been said earlier a lot of emphasis is based on future employability and if you have the suitability to go all the way. Not just being good at your present role.
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
#60
wurz said:
dhoby_bucket said:
Take the view that you are far too good at your present level that if you got promoted they would lose those skills into a management role totally unsuitable for you...
What complete bollox. Nobody doesn't get promoted for being too good where they are. If it's because of the latter part it's precisely because you may be perceived as being unsuitable in a higher role. As has been said earlier a lot of emphasis is based on future employability and if you have the suitability to go all the way. Not just being good at your present role.
Absolutely true, however the future employability thing is an issue, I shone with write ups exceeding those of my peers, I had the good fortune of talking with the Lt Cdr who sat on my WO2 board, his opinion and something that was mentioned on my board, was that I had too narrow a career history and needed to get in a position where I was using my ACC to its full potential (despite the fact I already was head of two departments and remember he put me where I was knowing full well I was an ACC holder) and had previously spent 3 years as WCPO on a large squadron. When I asked drafty for a small ships flight SMR job I was told firmly that there was no-one to replace me in my current job for at least two years when he would get me in an ACC holders job to enhance my career profile. I put my notice in, not purely for that reason, I was already on 2OE(10) and could afford to wait.

I actually realised when I saw the names on the signal that it was a load of old bollox, people on there with one aircraft type and only ever worked within the lynx envelope (very narrow career history in my view) Funnily enough when I left a year later a relief was found for me despite no-one being available for 2 years! Best decison I ever made though, I've gone from strength to strength in my civvy job in a mere 10 months, it seems my new employer has no qualms about employing people where their strengths lie, and rewarding them appropriately for hard work :thumright:
 
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