Promotion Boards

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#21
@wave_dodger , do you think it right though, that a Lt Cdr LO can be level transferred across to TMO. I'm quite sure that would not be allowed to happen the other way....:D:(:mad:
When your professional training is 8 weeks in RNSETT, I think the ships cat could get a level transfer!

Thats happened a lot (not the cat), failed WAFUs, bored Pussers and useless Fish-heads - comes down to the Branch Manager making a call on the individuals experience, competencies and the Branch need, plus what jobs they can expect to fill. It is a tad galling for people already in the branch - life in a blue suit.
 
#22
cheers wave_dodger

I guess there are a fair amount of considerations to take in with regards to promotion numbers etc. Many of which, just wont/dont register with many out there away from the branch managers desk.

another thing that is a tad annoying, when promotion can be slow and you see year after year, people getting EC for the 2nd or even 3rd go and some of the desks they push (and will continue to) are decent drafts. I know, I know, there will be a reason etc but annoying all the same. Same with FTRS's in your branch/1 up
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#23
another thing that is a tad annoying, when promotion can be slow and you see year after year, people getting EC for the 2nd or even 3rd go and some of the desks they push (and will continue to) are decent drafts. I know, I know, there will be a reason etc but annoying all the same. Same with FTRS's in your branch/1 up
I agree. There does seem to be some incoherent decisions, but I suspect that FTRS and EC decisions are balanced by likely numbers in promotion boards and VO rates.

If holes appear in plots its easier to use the EC/FTRS levers than to grow someone ready to be promoted. Frustrating but just another example of the variables that CM/BM have to juggle.
 

Trainer

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#24
When your professional training is 8 weeks in RNSETT, I think the ships cat could get a level transfer!

Thats happened a lot (not the cat), failed WAFUs, bored Pussers and useless Fish-heads - comes down to the Branch Manager making a call on the individuals experience, competencies and the Branch need, plus what jobs they can expect to fill. It is a tad galling for people already in the branch - life in a blue suit.
'8' weeks? LOL, not in my day..... This would be very much like my time in the RAF, where they started putting Adminers into Trainer billets. I remember very well the panicked phone call I got one Monday morning at 0805, 'Trainer, it's Smudge - what the **** do I do"?....:D

It's amazing really, I spent half my career being told technical ability was not needed for promotion, and the other half being told it was. Like I said, I'm not riding this horse any longer.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#25
'It's amazing really, I spent half my career being told technical ability was not needed for promotion, and the other half being told it was. Like I said, I'm not riding this horse any longer.
The business changes over time, cyclical, nothing is really new.

You need core abilities and competencies whether you're a JR, SR or Officer; We had MCC for the more technical leaning Officers and with 3TC that was lost, to a larger degree. Now with the streamed careers its recognised as being needed again. Still not convinced TMO will exist in the future but thats a different debate.

Leave on your own terms. The time you've had in the RAF and RN will have changed you to a greater/lesser degree. For most people, for the better. But we all leave, its just (to my mind), better to do it without bitterness and for the right reasons.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
#26
Is there any possibility of feedback as to where an individual placed in a board? Its hard to tell people 'I think you are great so dont know why you didnt promote' - could a general 'selected, nearly there, not yet, bottom quartile' type ranking be provided to help DOs tell people how they did?

My biggest frustration was being told year on year that I was more than ready, yet never got on the signal and had no idea why not. This lack of feedback was a big driver in my choice to leave.
 
#27
Is there any possibility of feedback as to where an individual placed in a board? Its hard to tell people 'I think you are great so dont know why you didnt promote' - could a general 'selected, nearly there, not yet, bottom quartile' type ranking be provided to help DOs tell people how they did?

My biggest frustration was being told year on year that I was more than ready, yet never got on the signal and had no idea why not. This lack of feedback was a big driver in my choice to leave.
You can get feedback from your CM as to your 'score' which indicted if you got on the Final Selection Board, and how, in general, you fared in the FSB.

Of course, this would require the RNR CM(s) to understand what they were doing.

Given your pack will still exist, you should make a subject access request under the DPA and see how you did...
 
#28
talking about this very subject at work today.
one of the chaps in the office is another with an AIB pass and he believes that a bod being seen at the promotions board with an AIB pass in the bag (although, not selected yet at FSB) will be a very strong candidate for promotion to the next higher rate (obviously with recent SJARs reflecting that) etc. Is this likely? Can't see why not.

when a JR, was never too bothered about the mechanics of it all. Age comes with a bit of wisdom I guess
 
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wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#29
one of the chaps in the office is another with an AIB pass and he believes that a bod being seen at the promotions board with an AIB pass in the bag (although, not selected yet at FSB) will be a very strong candidate for promotion to the next higher rate (obviously with recent SJARs reflecting that) etc. Is this likely?
Promotion is solely based upon what is in the SJARSs/OJARS. If an SJAR references an AIB pass then it is something the board can take into consideration, it's not going to be a disadvantage!

Bear in mind though, that when the boards come to final numbers/grades - if two were graded the same but one had an AIB pass then notionally you could promote the one without, making an assumption the other will be extracted. I can't say that is what happens, but its one scenario given the boards have to fill to the MAUN.
 

Spare_Rib

Lantern Swinger
#30
The board will judge the portfolio based on the definition of merit. An AIB pass is not an indication of suitability and capacity for next higher rate; it shows suitability to undertake officer training. At the boards I've sat on an AIB pass hasn't really affected the final outcome, although many candidates have also shown their potential for next higher rate alongside their potential to become an officer. At one board the board president actually reminded us not to give weight to an AIB comment unless it supported an aspect of potential and merit. Where it is frustrating is when a reporting officer wastes the word count describing CW or AIB related accomplishments rather than evidence of potential for next higher rate. I would argue that this actually puts candidates at a disadvantage at their promotion board.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
#31
You can get feedback from your CM as to your 'score' which indicted if you got on the Final Selection Board, and how, in general, you fared in the FSB.

Of course, this would require the RNR CM(s) to understand what they were doing.

Given your pack will still exist, you should make a subject access request under the DPA and see how you did...
legend - SAR incoming!
 
#32
The board will judge the portfolio based on the definition of merit. An AIB pass is not an indication of suitability and capacity for next higher rate; it shows suitability to undertake officer training. At the boards I've sat on an AIB pass hasn't really affected the final outcome, although many candidates have also shown their potential for next higher rate alongside their potential to become an officer. At one board the board president actually reminded us not to give weight to an AIB comment unless it supported an aspect of potential and merit. Where it is frustrating is when a reporting officer wastes the word count describing CW or AIB related accomplishments rather than evidence of potential for next higher rate. I would argue that this actually puts candidates at a disadvantage at their promotion board.
Ah thanks for the reply. Good information there.

How much is weighted to the alignment process. Top candidates have very good reports etc but coming high up or top in your section, department and unit/establishment can vary.

Easier to come very high up in an alignment process on a T45 for example than compared to being at Sultan. If that makes sense.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#34
How much is weighted to the alignment process.
Alignment is internal only, and there is a lack of consistency across the piste in how this is applied, which is a personal bug bear of mine. Especially when Seniors dictate they must have a bath tub distribution of grades despite having a cohort of exceptional people.

At the end of the day, if a person is graded the Xth of Y people it is just another factor taken into consideration. Where they are employed and for how long is considered, the board members tend to be sanguine and spot under/over marking.
 
#35
Bear in mind though, that when the boards come to final numbers/grades - if two were graded the same but one had an AIB pass then notionally you could promote the one without, making an assumption the other will be extracted. I can't say that is what happens, but its one scenario given the boards have to fill to the MAUN.
that would be a ridiculous assumption to make (in my opinion) that would be totally unfair on that person with the AIB pass.

who is to say that person will ever get selected for extraction. If they do get selected , who is to say that will accept/start/pass officer training.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#36
that would be a ridiculous assumption to make (in my opinion) that would be totally unfair on that person with the AIB pass.
Perhaps. I did say it's one scenario.

You also have to bear in mind as the MAUN decreases boards will have to make harder choices. If the board is selecting PO to CPO and the numbers are limited, if a pack shows an A candidate but his pack also indicates he's passed AIB and is highly likely to extract then you risk not filling the boards quota and creating a gap. Hard choices and the boards are steered by branch/career managers.
 
#37
I know that is only 1 scenario and would mean many chicken bones falling gently into place for that to come about.

Still a ridiculous way to go about it when we are in an age where being out of date RNFT and even having given your notice is does not stop you being considered for promotion

Someone with an AIB pass but not yet selected for extraction should never be passed over on an assumption that they are going wardroom....oneday............maybe

Poor message in my opinion
 
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