Promotion Boards

Discussion in 'UPO/Careers Office' started by FunkyJunky, Sep 17, 2016.

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  1. How do they work?

    Guess your most recent SJAR along with your objectives etc are scrutinised.
    Are your names blanked out?
    how do they take into account the skill of the person writing a report to that of the next?
    Do insert slips get looked at and taken into account (IE, someone who has passed AIB but not yet selected)?
    I assume there is a pretty strict scoring criteria but what is it?
    I guess it is all about 'merit' for promotion after the recent-ish guidance given from above.

    Not for one min suggesting anything is unfair, just curious as the mechanics of it/them is not well known (by me anyway)
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  2. Your front page is important, objectives etc. They are looked at, and the board will expect you to take an interest in your own career.

    They're not anonymous, but having more than one member should mean than one individuals bias shouldn't impact the overall score.

    It's not just based on the last SJAR either, one poor report shouldn't end your chances if it's amongst several strong ones. So I would expect insert slips to be read too, otherwise why write them?

    AIB? In itself only important when being considered for extraction, but then a rating being presented at AIB and passing it would suggest a rating that's likely to be getting good reports so maybe?

    None of the procedure is secret and if you were not selected when you thought you might have been you can ask for feedback from the board through your DO.

    If you can wait a month I will be able to hopefully give a much more definitive answer as I'm sitting on a board next month.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. @A2_matelot has sat on more than a few boards...
  4. thank you very much.
    as said, just curious that is all.
  5. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    I thought they just swept the top half of SJARs into the bin on grounds no one unlucky should be promoted, before playing eeenie-meenie-minny-moh with the rest?
  6. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    All of your SJARS in the current Rate are taken, including the last one from previous Rate. All of the names and supporting information is open to all members of the promotion board.

    Yes insert slips are read and they have as much bearing as a normal SJAR.

    Your boards are comprised of a number of people including someone from outside the branch/spec, and usually they like to keep board composition the same for a number of iterations (when possible) as it brings consistency. Using different people also allows any prejudice and +ve/-ve bias to be removed.

    You mention the apposite point about the person writing the reports and their skill. From experience I can tell you that we can spot weak markers, weak authors, cuts & paste attempts (yes, still happens) and those too lazy to move beyond cliche and they are all redressed by the Captain who runs the Promotion Section. That aside you get a range of humans, who are trying their best to articulate what the SP has done and of course it varies but in the main it works well.

    The scoring system is based upon the history of reports presented - consistency, improvement, clearly evidenced achievements, capacity for the next higher rank and of course the final culminating report. There isn't a crib sheet, each board member marks or assesses each person (A - D) on their analysis and then each of the members marks are compared. Interestingly there is usually a 70-80% match, then you can analyse and dive into the 20% and see why the differences came out.

    Indeed, it is ALL about merit. We get paid to do our jobs well so 'performance' is a given, the real meat is in the 'potential' and that is where there has to be justifiable evidence that meets the definitions of merit.

    Hand on heart - its as fair as any system can be, the weakness is having to rely upon differing 1RO and 2RO but in the main they are good and they get better each year.
  7. Trainer

    Trainer War Hero Book Reviewer

    @wave_dodger . Well if all you say is true, I should be alright this year then. I'm not doing this anymore...
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Having recently sat on a ratings promotion board, the whole portfolio was shown i.e. every report since becoming a fully qualified AB1 (this was a PO promotion board). And ratings are graded 1-9 by board members. And I totally agree with wave_dodger - it really is as fair as it can be and they are constantly reviewing the process to keep up to date with current thinking, such as unconscious bias training etc.
    • Like Like x 1

  9. how come it is not evidently available regarding the numbers wanted per branch at each board etc?

    Personally, I have some hope on the coming boards but you never know. Got a good write up last year (not successful) a better one this year (inc AIB stuff, which I ended up passing), so we shall see
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  10. Basically the whole process and scoring system is based on the BR3 definition of merit. The scoring of a portfolio is used to place candidates in a relative order of merit who will be selected UP TO the maximum authorised number (MAuN) as decreed by the Branch Manager. The reason the MAuN isn't publically released is that the board may decide that there aren't enough suitable candidates to meet it and therefore non-release manages expectations. It can also change post the actual board, therefore not releasing it keeps it flexible for the Branch Managers to use as a lever for required numbers.

    And I'm sure the 'Directions to Board Members' document is available on DACOS Proms Intranet page? Or you could easily request a copy from Proms?
  11. Cheers for the info.
    Fingers crossed here
    • Like Like x 1
  12. one of our lads is seriously considering transferring to the SM service (with his trade) after going to one of the presentations recently. He is worried that doing so would put him bottom of the pile with regards to promotion boards.

    Would I be right in telling him that should he transfer this year, and get a good recommendation next year (from a boat), he would be looked at equally at the promotion boards, despite not having the breadth of SM service behind him. As essentially, people within the SM service would see it fit to suggest he should be promoted etc

    there is a big push to try and recruit to the SM service but some of the lads I have spoken to are not sure as they ultimately want to get promoted and dont want to see themselves off.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  13. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    If his current and previous reports give him a trajectory for promotion then a transfer is unlikely to alter that significantly.

    In many ways a board will see the transfer as positive, sign of commitment etc. But the killer is if he/she nails any PJTs and makes a seamless transition.

    If he/she is on the cusp of promotion how I really don't think it will make a difference.
  14. thank you. that is what I have been saying but never quite sure.

    if they want to pursue a change of direction in their career from ships to boats then I'd like to think that it wont disadvantage them at the promotion boards at all. A recommendation to the next rate is just that and looked at equally
  15. I think it will depend entirely on the spec. For example for logistics specs the core role doesn't dramatically change in the SM roles and therefore their promotion potential wouldn't be affected. However I'm not sure if this would translate across to the other branches? Merit includes suitability and capacity for next higher rate, and if your core role has changed you may not be able to show these attributes as quickly as in your surface role? I suggest further advice should be sought before making a firm decision, either from the SRs in the Career Management Cells or the CMs in West Battery.
  16. Trainer

    Trainer War Hero Book Reviewer

    @wave_dodger , do you think it right though, that a Lt Cdr LO can be level transferred across to TMO. I'm quite sure that would not be allowed to happen the other way....:D:(:mad:
  17. Oooooo, this could get interesting......!
  18. likewise, a killick CIS came from boats to us a couple of years ago.
    he is top notch and has had a two years of good reports from the ship (recent one being outstanding to be fair)

    like to think he will be in with a very good shout next year as the CIS world does not differ much between ships/subs I dont think

    hope so for his sake. he is a good'un
    • Like Like x 1
  19. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    There have been X(SM) who have gone to SurFlot with no issues and vice versa, albeit at relatively junior stages of their careers. You need to be at the right stage to build the experience/qualifications.

    For engineers, of course there will be a transition via systems courses and then experience.

    In general though that is dealt with in performance aspects of reporting, the potential element, which really constitutes the promotion element, takes a wider view.
  20. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    The numbers are relatively fluid, and there is a small amount of give and take between branches (case by case) to maintain overall stability. The numbers are an internal driver, it would set a false perception if they were published in the way they are used now. In the future if we alter our promotion model they may well end up being published in advance (better transparency).

    BUT the downside is clear just looking at the RAF who do this already - they say we'll take X from Y branch; X gets taken, Z get grumpy and leave because they were close but not taken then weeks/months later the RAF decides to take more from Y branch because things have changed...

    You have to get the manpower modelling right and the promotion system to feed it accordingly correct. Not easy, lots of dynamic variables.

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