positive discrimination

[micmic]

Is it not about time that the armed forces took a leaf out of the police book and had a positive discrimination policy towards promotion. Surely if we actively promoted ethnic and female minoritys on a fast track system, it would encourage more of the aforementioned people to join?

 

[dondon]

No, can't agree micmic , all this positive stuff can only be bad for this once proud country of our's , I mean , how can you possibly be given tax credits , when in fact you have never paid tax , Come to England and be given what ever you want , :evil: we must be Fxxxxxxxg mad , a life boat will only hold so many peaple , the Guardianistas just can't see it :evil:

 

[amour_de_moutons]

In my view discrimination is wrong, so therefore surely positive discrimination is also wrong? For every person you give a 'favour' to your shafting another poor sod who might have worked three times as hard.

I think it's a ridiculous system personally. It might also remove any sense of, 'Well, I really worked for and earnt this.' in those that were rewarded. As of course any black person who does get promoted might think at the back of their mind that really it's worthless, as there's a very strong chance that he was just given it because of the colour of his skin, and that can quite easily be seen as an insult. With that in mind he or she might also then feel that the military does not value his capability at his [or her*] job, or the work that s/he has put in and merely used his promotion as a PR campaign or part of a political stunt.
If you saw your promotion in the newspaper under the headline, 'equality in the Armed Forces: Navy promotes ethnic minorities.' How would you feel?

The best idea would be to have no discrimination at all; after all, it'll make someone feel uncomfortable one way or another.

*For example I feel things like His/Her are ridiculous, let's just have the male form as neuter and be over and done with it. It can barely be seen as sexism if you don't write the female form, surely? Man-Hole Covers are now Maintenance-Hole Covers on the BBC, or something ridiculous like that. Police-Person.

 

[dunkers]

I very strongly disagree with the idea of recruiting people from different ethnic minorities (or similar discrimination) just for diversity - surely the RN wants the best people for the job, not people who fill some sort of "diversity" quota? For what reason should we be using people's "differences" - rather than abilities (which trancends creed or colour) - as a reason for recruiting those people? None, of course!

The fact that positive discrimination exists means that ethnic (etc) differences are still recognised - surely in an "equal" society there should be no regard whatsoever for these differences?

Lastly, is it any wonder that there are problems recruiting ethnic minorities - what pride in Britain do you honestly expect (most of) them to have? (Imagine you move to a new country and after 5 years of residence there you could join their navy, as is the case here - would you join out of patriotism?)

 

[andym]

So now we have an Admiral Hussain,what happens next???

 

[janner]

Is it not about time that the armed forces took a leaf out of the police book and had a positive discrimination policy towards promotion. Surely if we actively promoted ethnic and female minoritys on a fast track system, it would encourage more of the aforementioned people to join?

In my opinion, the road the Police have taken is the wrong one. People are being promoted for who they are rather than on ability. The head long race to get a 50/50 split male/female will I believe lead to long term problems. Watch the TV news, how many times do you see Policemen giving statements or shown on patrol. More and more women are being recruited, like it or not, this causes problems with keeping people on the front line, with the problems that pregnancies and maternity leave causes.

On the physical side, in the main women aren't as strong as their male counterparts. Think back to the Miners dispute, lets hope that there is never a repeat, but if there should be, I seriously doubt that with its present type of manning, the Police would be able to cope and put sufficient numbers on the line to hold massive public disorder over an extended period.

 

[Nutty]

Is it not about time that the armed forces took a leaf out of the police book and had a positive discrimination policy towards promotion. Surely if we actively promoted ethnic and female minoritys on a fast track system, it would encourage more of the aforementioned people to join?

"Fee Fi Foe Fum, I Smell the Blood of a Jono-man" me thinks some one is fishing for a story.

Nutty

 

[Old_Hand]

I firmly believe that you can't make people join an organisation just by positive descrimination. If they really wanted to join they would have done before that, regardless of gender, race, colour or sexuality. Also people have to be promoted on ability, not because it is the PC thing to do.

 

[come_the_day]

Now - a 50 / 50 split is an interesting concept(!)

 

[andym]

Isnt that a PC term for a Naval Lesbian?

 

[BeerBad]

I would class myself as ethnic but I don't want and would not expect any "favours".

Have to agree with Nutty because the first thing I thought when I read the comment from micmic was that he was trying for a bite. So go on micmic, who are you?

 

[ScaleyFins]

Promotion should be (and is) down to individual ability, not skin colour. The best people for the job, get the job.

Sod it, i'll bite! There is no such thing as positive discrimination. So go and hug some trees you beardy gimp.

 

[higthepig]

If it is indeed a journo,then he must be quite thick,there have always been ethnics in the navy,as ive said on other threads,there were plenty when i joined in jan 56,it cant reach 50% because we dont have that many ethnics per rota,dont we aleady have an Admiral?Some people really do come out with some crap.Engage brain before operating mouth.

 

[NozzyNozzer]

If it is indeed a journo,then he must be quite thick,there have always been ethnics in the navy,as ive said on other threads,there were plenty when i joined in jan 56,it cant reach 50% because we dont have that many ethnics per rota,dont we aleady have an Admiral?Some people really do come out with some crap.Engage brain before operating mouth.

Surely "Journo" is synonymous with being thick... no I'm being a bit unfair here, but you know what I mean... In the Red Tops it is too often the case of open mouth, print story, turn on brain (briefly), turn it off again and go to sleep... :roll:

 

[Nutty]

If it is indeed a journo,then he must be quite thick,there have always been ethnics in the navy,as ive said on other threads,there were plenty when i joined in jan 56,it cant reach 50% because we dont have that many ethnics per rota,dont we aleady have an Admiral?Some people really do come out with some crap.Engage brain before operating mouth.

Hig

I am not sure where you found your enthnics. I joined in 61 at the G place and left in 72 spend most of my time in boats. I never ever saw an ethnic in the Royal Navy, lower deck or bunhouse, let alone served with one. Not unless you call Jocks enthnic.

Nutty

 

[higthepig]

Well Nutty if you had been a Wafu on carriers you would have seen plenty, Jews, Asians ,and many other coulours ,of course with a ships company of 2,500,Eagle and Ark, not quite so many on the light fleet carriers,it was ineventable they would be there,my childrens Godfather was one.,vey dark very shiny,but the banter today onboard would not be allowed.

 

[andym]

[quote="Nutty
I am not sure where you found your enthnics. I joined in 61 at the G place and left in 72 spend most of my time in boats. I never ever saw an ethnic in the Royal Navy, lower deck or bunhouse, let alone served with one. Not unless you call Jocks enthnic.

Nutty[/quote]We had one,he was a Med Tech (Lab) that had transferred from the Indian Air Force to the RN and when he failed both his Lab tech and MT(Nurse) course he went on to be an MA.Taj was a top dollar guy and got a daily ribbing,all good natured, but today would be considered inappropriate,which he took in good faith and gave as good as he recieved. :lol: :lol:

 

[Nutty]

I am not saying there were no ethnics in The RN but they were very thin on the ground. I passed through at various times, Dryad, Pembroke, Vernon, Dolphin Neptune, Terror, Cochrane, Drake, Raleigh and even Guildford Royal Navy and Royal Marines Recruiting Office, never a dark or ethnic face crossed my path. Some from other countries navies yes but not Pusser.

Nutty

 

[Jenny_Dabber]

If the MOD decides to promote on a female/skin basis then its gonna go pete tong! Would you prefer some one of an ethnic back ground, who can not manage a decent job on a good day to run your ship or some one with the best skilss, knowledge and aptitude for the job?

 

[whitemouse]

'Ethnicity' is one word I would like to see completely banned from any use whatsoever, or at the very least not being brought into any considerations for jobs and/or promotion.

Unfortunately it appears to be the one word that the PC brigade love to use to show that they are 'in touch'.
It is prevalent in government (local and national) circles where you can see promotion is given to particular people, bacause of the urge to be 'in touch'.
I think the US stated a long time ago that the UK was going through what they did in the 60s (reverse discrimination), and should avoid it - but alas it appears our leaders are not listening - but when do they take any notice of anything??

Has anyone also noticed that some documents require a box for Ethnic origin to be completed, which usually has 'White' but never 'White Caucasian' - which is the correct term I believe - and then goes on to 'Chinese', Asian, etc

It's the same as Nationality - you cannot use 'English', my local hospital changed it to 'British' but I changed it back to Anglo/Irish - that foxed 'em!

Aren't all of us of one ethnic origin or another - surely it's the capability, experience and aptitude of the person that should count, but is anyone (in the PC brigade) likely to take that into account ?