Position of fin things..

#1
First of all as you can guess I am not a submariner so im going use my own skimmer terms for parts of your boats that probably arnt the correct terms.
Why are the fin things (might be correctly termed planes) located on the hull of British boats but on the tower of Yank and Ozzie ones?
 
#6
I was more thinking about the Yanks the Ozzies are still on their first attempt. I went to the launch of Astute it was nearly 5 years ago and from what I have been told its nowhere near ready. Is there not more of a reason thats already in the public domain than simply we're better? Im pretty sure my grandad told me the reason when I was little (he worked in vickers his entire career) but its to late to ask him again now.
 
#7
On a purely practical basis the "foreplanes"(proper name in the RN) are much more useful when they are either under the water or near the surface when they are needed for diving and surfacing added to which there is plenty of other equipment such as masts in the fin(sometimes called the conning tower) and having the hydrailics for the planes in there too must be a nightmare for the Yanks.They must see a benefit but I can't think what it might be.I have noticed they have their fin fairly for'd on the hull so maybe it is something to do with that.
 

pg55555

Lantern Swinger
#9
.

From OPEN sources (so may be complete rubbish).

The USN preferred the fin (to them sail) position to allow a "larger force arm" by off-setting the axis of the fore- and aft-planes - this helped low speed manouvering.

The RN preferred hull mounted fore-planes for high speeds and under-ice operations.

The USN said they changed to the hull position for under-ice ops.

.
 
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janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
#10
I assume that foreplanes as they were on the diesel boats aren't so essential now that coming off the surface in a hurry must almost be a thing of the past in nucs.

Memories of A and O boats trimmed down on the surface completely under water in something like 45 seconds, if nothing else it kept you fit, either getting below or shutting down the diesels depending on your branch.
 
#11
.

From OPEN sources (so may be complete rubbish).

The USN preferred the fin (to them sail) position to allow a "larger force arm" by off-setting the axis of the fore- and aft-planes - this helped low speed manouvering.

The RN preferred hull mounted fore-planes for high speeds and under-ice operations.

The USN said they changed to the hull position for under-ice ops.

.
I remember talking to the engineer of USS Hawkbill at Portsmouth in the late 90's, who had just been under ice. He stated that they had a strengthened fin and by positioning the foreplanes vertically on the sail it made like an arrow for "punching " through the ice!
 
#12
I assume that foreplanes as they were on the diesel boats aren't so essential now that coming off the surface in a hurry must almost be a thing of the past in nucs.

Memories of A and O boats trimmed down on the surface completely under water in something like 45 seconds, if nothing else it kept you fit, either getting below or shutting down the diesels depending on your branch.

Flood Q.

and bollocks to make the min number
 
#13
On T boats the foreplanes are retractable, as they were on S boats, so we pull them in when alongside but the controls for it are a nightmare (as I can say from bitter experience). Foreplanes are only used at PD (periscope depth for the un-initiated), diving and surfacing, and are locked in the horizontal position when deep as depth control is all done using the aft planes.
 
#14
Blank post, second attempt and counting. :angry5:

Yes, but the are just GREAT for catching lobster pots (in BUTEC as I can say from bitter experience!!). I wonder how they cope nowadays without the trusty Ships' Divers............. and we got a tot!







But hey, the emoticons are back! ^^
 
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#15
Blank post, second attempt and counting. :angry5:

Yes, but the are just GREAT for catching lobster pots (in BUTEC as I can say from bitter experience!!). I wonder how they cope nowadays without the trusty Ships' Divers............. and we got a tot!







But hey, the emoticons are back! ^^
Done the same with nets and pots SB and I think ships divers are still going on boats, I'm sure a CD will be along sometime (if the feckin' posts work) and spin the dit.

And no, the emoticons still ain't working.
 

fails_as_is

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#16
Foreplanes can be retracted, but are a total pain in the arse, often requiring precise adjustment, or more accurately "percussion fettling" by experienced Wrecker Ms. They are however ineffective and tend to make a bit of a noise above a certain speed hence they tend to be locked and depth maintained by after planes only when fast and deep. I believe the same is true for astute class boats also.
 

fails_as_is

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#17
Incdentally, ships divers have not been carried for a number of years, so that is a capability we are sadly lacking when deployed. If any specialist work is required, SMs have to call on the services of an RN diving unit now to come out and perform underwater engineering work, beyond the usual fitting of the sewage connection and bancock strainers. (astute class fortunately have a high level sewage discharge hull valve negating the need for divers whenever you come alongside or leave the wall)
 
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#18
Foreplanes can be retracted, but are a total pain in the arse, often requiring precise adjustment, or more accurately "percussion fettling" by experienced Wrecker Ms. They are however ineffective and tend to make a bit of a noise above a certain speed hence they tend to be locked and depth maintained by after planes only when fast and deep. I believe the same is true for astute class boats also.
Don't forget the Wrecker L (me) who spent many a time hanging over the rams in the foreplanes recess tweaking the micro switches with command demanding to know how long before they can speed up again (can't get them out or in above 4 knots):director:
 
#19
Don't forget the Wrecker L (me) who spent many a time hanging over the rams in the foreplanes recess tweaking the micro switches with command demanding to know how long before they can speed up again (can't get them out or in above 4 knots):director:
And keeping me out of my rack.:(
 

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