Portsmouth or Plymouth dockyards to close...?

Dabs

Lantern Swinger
percey99 said:
GOOD I do hope both get closed , and they build Hospitals on these sites >>>>
You should be put in a bloody hospital if you feel that way you turkey and you should get off this site. I bet your one of those pink and fluffy ******* who means well, but simply screws EVERYTHING up for the rest of the world. Do yourself a favour and get yourself committed, but before you do that, find another site.
 
Dabs said:
percey99 said:
GOOD I do hope both get closed , and they build Hospitals on these sites >>>>
You should be put in a bloody hospital if you feel that way you turkey and you should get off this site. I bet your one of those pink and fluffy ******* who means well, but simply screws EVERYTHING up for the rest of the world. Do yourself a favour and get yourself committed, but before you do that, find another site.
I'm kind of surprised that no-one has sussed that percey99 is this forum's very own pet troll, as such takes great delight in posting inanities and utter shite.

Best way is to ignore the 'me-me-me' ****.

Levers
 

brigham600

War Hero
Levers_Aligned said:
Dabs said:
percey99 said:
GOOD I do hope both get closed , and they build Hospitals on these sites >>>>
You should be put in a bloody hospital if you feel that way you turkey and you should get off this site. I bet your one of those pink and fluffy ******* who means well, but simply screws EVERYTHING up for the rest of the world. Do yourself a favour and get yourself committed, but before you do that, find another site.
I'm kind of surprised that no-one has sussed that percey99 is this forum's very own pet troll, as such takes great delight in posting inanities and utter shite.

Best way is to ignore the 'me-me-me' ****.

Levers
Levers, I sussed him/she out ages ago and treat all the posts with the same disdain I treat dog poo on my shoe. :p :lol:
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Booty & Dunkers

I'm afraid you've been somewhat mis-informed about the "huge array of weapons" on the T45 and the number of Royals they can carry. The first six will enter service with 48 AAW missiles and a MK8 4.5", plus Harpoon and they have accommodation for around 30 troops for any length of time. If we get the last two, they're likely to carry less........

You may also struggle to deliver said troops with two RIB seaboats and a Lynx - although the ship will take a naval Merlin, they will normally carry Lynx.

Loggie & Flagwagger - clearly you have been reading too much of Jane's Fighting Ships which indicates that other less than friendly countries may still maintain a submarine, surface ship and air force. Shame on you, Jane's is clearly not privy to the information held by MoD Main Building, which is that there is no submarine, surface or air threat that cannot be wished away in the interests of good accounting.........
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Not_a_boffin said:
Loggie & Flagwagger - clearly you have been reading too much of Jane's Fighting Ships which indicates that other less than friendly countries may still maintain a submarine, surface ship and air force. Shame on you, Jane's is clearly not privy to the information held by MoD Main Building, which is that there is no submarine, surface or air threat that cannot be wished away in the interests of good accounting.........
Would this be a similar source to that used by the Treasury when they say "taxation is at an all time low", the Dept of Eduaction when they talk about rising standards and the NHS when they say that the NHS is getting more efficient by the second. The politicians approach to everything - never let reality intrude into the parallel univers occupied by politicians and bean counters.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Got it in one.

"I like not these assumptions, bring me some different assumptions etc"
G Brown (Brooding somewhere) 2006.
 
Not_a_boffin

Where, pray, did I mention submarines (apart from the SSBN's place in maritime doctrine)? Not read Janes for years and what's the relevance?

Just a minute; that was irony tinted with satire, wasn't it.
 
Not_a_boffin said:
Booty & Dunkers

I'm afraid you've been somewhat mis-informed about the "huge array of weapons" on the T45 and the number of Royals they can carry. The first six will enter service with 48 AAW missiles and a MK8 4.5", plus Harpoon and they have accommodation for around 30 troops for any length of time. If we get the last two, they're likely to carry less........

You may also struggle to deliver said troops with two RIB seaboats and a Lynx - although the ship will take a naval Merlin, they will normally carry Lynx.
The Royal Navy Handbook (by the MoD) clearly states that its Military lift is 60 troops, that is two Troop (/Platoons). We are not talking about extended ops here, we are talking about an advance to contact, you can then move them to landing craft from the 45.

And if the 45s don't have a large weapons array, why are we being sold this as the world's most Advance Air Defence Destroyer.
 

avoiding_action

Lantern Swinger
Advanced in AAW and little else!

Royal won't get any support once he's out of range of the 4.5'

They are looking at 155mmm with even a manned turret (steady on cement heads), but its a long way off with no money. Even Tomahawk or a sea launced Storm Shadow will take so long to plan in a mission the contact will be over!
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
It is being sold as the worlds most advanced AAW destroyer in the hope that the gullible will believe it is worth the £600m each that they will cost.

The Tomahawk or Scalp Naval fits A-A refers to are not funded and as he says are therefore not in the ships, ditto the 155 (its either LA missiles OR a gun, not both).

The 60-man mil lift will be fun for any duration over 24 hours (a 500 mile trip then) as the mess is designed for 30 blokes. as will getting into any landing craft that might have tagged along with the force. A very fragile accommodation ladder is your ony way with bergen, beltkit & weapon.

At least they're new and at least they will carry a good AAW system, but the corners that have been cut to save one or two million per (and I do mean that) have left us with a far from perfect ship.
 
Booty_Cdt_Sgt

Be aware, son, that parts of the Civil Service directly provide the Navy with its logistical support. This is unique to the Navy and those idiot civil servants are as pi**ed of as anyone at the way the Navy is being neutered. Those people work hard and take pride in the support they provide. Funnily enough, this even extends to the ones who have been sold on to the WSMI Contractors; correction, "Partners".

Granted, there are civil servants in MoD Centre who "advise" and "influence" the decision makers who see and hear nothing but tills ringing and their next promotion opportunity.
 
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Granted, there are civil servants in MoD Centre who "advise" and "influence" the decision makers who see and hear nothing but tills ringing and their next promotion opportunity.
Well then my rant is directed at those that want to climb the ladder through finding cuts not those who do try and get the Navy every last scrap they can find for it.
 
Not_a_boffin said:
......the corners that have been cut to save one or two million per (and I do mean that) have left us with a far from perfect ship.
This is unfortunately not new in the annals of naval history, or even "recent" naval history. The old Destroyer, Light Guided (County Class Destroyer) started out as a cruiser, but by the time it was built it had lost a good deal of its length, its weapons systems and most of its ability to do the job because of cuts. It was grey and it floated, though!
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
Not_a_boffin said:
......the corners that have been cut to save one or two million per (and I do mean that) have left us with a far from perfect ship.
This is unfortunately not new in the annals of naval history, or even "recent" naval history. The old Destroyer, Light Guided (County Class Destroyer) started out as a cruiser, but by the time it was built it had lost a good deal of its length, its weapons systems and most of its ability to do the job because of cuts. It was grey and it floated, though!
I heard that similar cost-cutting was undertaken on T42s with Batch 1 & 2 being cut-down cost-reduced versions before the bean counters conceded defeat and allowed Batch 3 to be built which met all the origianl design requirements.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Except that they forgot to increase the strength of the B3 to compensate for the extra length, hence the box girder made of 1.25" submarine steel along the sheer strake!

The sort of thing we're talking about on T45 is in many respects in the detail, such as :

1. Until very recently there was no way to RAS 4.5 bullets. The RAS(S) position in the waist is superb for vittles & gen stores. Unfortunately it's on 01 deck and there is no easy way forward to the gun (as weatherdeck has been minimised iaw received wisdom). They've now put in a stump mast (as the 42) but it was a close run thing.

2. The diesel engines are meant to provide for hotel load (as the wonderful oh so clever & efficient WR21 can sort most of the propulsion and CS load). Two small snags - WR21 is about as reliable as a Deltic and the DGs chosen are not man enough for a propulsion job. The DGs are also no longer manufactured by Mr Wartsila - ie support will be fun.
 

safewalrus

War Hero
Nice to see that the fleet is moving toward good old troop movements (grey ferries) and away from those nasty fighting operations. Anyone remember the Falklands campaign, the Navy trained for anti submarine warfare before then! did away with the antiaircraft acapability it had in the fifties, sixties and seventies (which was hard won experience from WWII) and went to war with all these superb sub killers after all the nasty russians didn't have this aircraft capability! Pity we didn't fight the russians (they are taking over the country now - even own a couple of small football clubs!) but the nasty argentinians (who we of course trained - one of their skippers had just retired from the andrew no less) had lots of missiles and aircraft and the range - whoops shit nearly fcuked that op!

Any body remember the 1930's cut our defence forces down to bugger all, we'd had the war to end all wars between 1914 and 1918 so we didn't need all those nasty ships did we - to expensive! Somebody forgot to tell that nice Mr. Hitler!

And please remember the idea of the Royal Navy is to Protect the Merchant Navy, but as there is no Merchant Navy we don't need a Royal Navy (well actually there is and we do - ferries make great troop ships, so do passenger liners!)
 

hobbit

War Hero
Some interesting comments from the start of the thread , Portsmouth or Plymouth dockyards to close. So many different and conflicting ideas makes it difficult to decide which, if any, is right. Just on the two main DYs however as much as Pompey is a part of the RN it would appear to be the one that must go. Sad, as I have many happy memories of Pompey and Gosport.
The giveaway I suggest has been the development of HMS Raleigh for all training areas, from basic to specialist ie submarines. This IMHO makes Guzz DY an essential part of the system and in addition to this it is strategically placed for reasonably fast and safe access to the Atlantic and also southern seas.
A fairly safe prediction that poor old Pompey will go seems to be the way the brains are working as with the transfer of all the logistic stuff to Plymouth why else would this take place. The north may then be developed, west coast, as this is another significant location for easy access to the Atlantic and other areas of interest and there are the friendly neighbours of the EU to cover yer arse on the east coast.
Seems logical to me but political minds work in mysterious ways.

:D
 

Dabs

Lantern Swinger
hobbit said:
Some interesting comments from the start of the thread , Portsmouth or Plymouth dockyards to close.
It doesn't matter which dockyard closes shipmate because there are too few to support the Navy that we haven't got anyway.

An old and boldy was chatting to me in the messdeck a while back. He said 'George, always remember. Britain is an Island colony that depends upon its sea lanes for its lifeline in a time of war'. I could tell that he was so proud when he said to me, 'The Royal Navy will always be there to look after those sea lanes'.

He's probably long gone now and doesn't have to put up with the embarresment of having to swallow those words. But I still feel ashamed for him, because these days the Navy is totally fcuked. :cry:
 

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