Portsmouth Dockyard again !!

#1
I was chatting to our Harbour master today and the topic got round to Pompey Dockyard etc and he came out with this little story,so I thought in the interests of everyone on here I had better post it :

He is very matey with the Harbour master at Pompey and he said they were chatting about the Dockyard and closures etc and then he said that he has seen the plans for the Liner berth next to the Spinnaker Tower in Pompey because apparently Cunard are seriously thinking of pulling out of Southampton and moving to Pompey and berthing right next to all our Maritime History,that is also part reason they have done the Deep Water Channel into Pompey as well.

So read into this what you like !!!!
 
#2
Here's another one,

Pompey shuts because of the real estate value.
CVH/CVS find it difficult to get into Guzz because of draft so Portland gets re-opened and modernised.
 
#3
Nicks said:
I was chatting to our Harbour master today and the topic got round to Pompey Dockyard etc and he came out with this little story,so I thought in the interests of everyone on here I had better post it :

He is very matey with the Harbour master at Pompey and he said they were chatting about the Dockyard and closures etc and then he said that he has seen the plans for the Liner berth next to the Spinnaker Tower in Pompey because apparently Cunard are seriously thinking of pulling out of Southampton and moving to Pompey and berthing right next to all our Maritime History,that is also part reason they have done the Deep Water Channel into Pompey as well.

So read into this what you like !!!!
I have got to admit it would be more impressive than Southampton. You leave New York and gasp at its amazing skyline then 7 days later you sail past Fawley and up to Southampton, not very impressive at all.

Personally I would rather see Pompey full of warships though!
 
#4
Nicks said:
I was chatting to our Harbour master today and the topic got round to Pompey Dockyard etc and he came out with this little story,so I thought in the interests of everyone on here I had better post it :

He is very matey with the Harbour master at Pompey and he said they were chatting about the Dockyard and closures etc and then he said that he has seen the plans for the Liner berth next to the Spinnaker Tower in Pompey because apparently Cunard are seriously thinking of pulling out of Southampton and moving to Pompey and berthing right next to all our Maritime History,that is also part reason they have done the Deep Water Channel into Pompey as well.

So read into this what you like !!!!
That's interesting.. and depressing at the same time. :( I'm with Stumpy on this one. Warships are a better sight.
 
#5
Lamri said:
Here's another one,

Pompey shuts because of the real estate value.
CVH/CVS find it difficult to get into Guzz because of draft so Portland gets re-opened and modernised.
He was a Navigator on Lusty as well and he said the down side of Guzz was getting in and out of the place as it was so busy as well as getting round Drake Island etc.
 
#6
Nicks said:
I was chatting to our Harbour master today and the topic got round to Pompey Dockyard etc and he came out with this little story,so I thought in the interests of everyone on here I had better post it :

He is very matey with the Harbour master at Pompey and he said they were chatting about the Dockyard and closures etc and then he said that he has seen the plans for the Liner berth next to the Spinnaker Tower in Pompey because apparently Cunard are seriously thinking of pulling out of Southampton and moving to Pompey and berthing right next to all our Maritime History,that is also part reason they have done the Deep Water Channel into Pompey as well.

So read into this what you like !!!!
IMHO the dredging in Pompey was never going to be for the CVF. If we ever get the new carriers, I suspect we'll be surprised where they end up being base ported.
Berthing liners in Gunwharf might be great for the local economy, but I can't imagine its a prime destination for the international jet-set. New York to DSC just doesn't have the same ring to it! Imagine busloads of the idle rich being dropped off for an evening in the Mucky Duck or The PT prior to finishing the evening with a messy burger.
 
#7
I reckon they're gonna save money by combining aircarft carriers with liners. There'll be a swimming pool in front of the ski jump, and deck chairs on the goofers gallery. We'll have to clean up the sod's opera a bit, and get used to bingo and tea dancing on the hangar deck. But at least we'll get a bar open at sea again.

The navy will be self-funding that way..... and the RNR will have the best of both worlds.
 
#8
clanky said:
Berthing liners in Gunwharf might be great for the local economy, but I can't imagine its a prime destination for the international jet-set. New York to DSC just doesn't have the same ring to it! Imagine busloads of the idle rich being dropped off for an evening in the Mucky Duck or The PT prior to finishing the evening with a messy burger.
I can't wait to see that!

Half the tour of Sh1tsville will be spent on the Rudmore Flyover, followed by the Unicorn Gate traffic lights and stuck in a jam on Mountbatten Way and, to cap it all, 2 hours spent at the f&cking gate waiting to get a f&cking pass before they can get back in!

Guess what kind of a week I've had! :x
 
#9
Nicks said:
Lamri said:
Here's another one,

Pompey shuts because of the real estate value.
CVH/CVS find it difficult to get into Guzz because of draft so Portland gets re-opened and modernised.
He was a Navigator on Lusty as well and he said the down side of Guzz was getting in and out of the place as it was so busy as well as getting round Drake Island etc.
I'm detecting a slight whiff of bullsh here. The mighty O has (roughly)the same bottom plan as a CVS, she gets in and out of Guzz OK. Not forgetting that Lusty refitted there in 92/93. Anyone care to guess which class of capial ships has the deepest draught?Care to guess where they go for refit? How about guessing which pussers ship has the deepest draught, and where she is based. I suspect someone is clutching at straws.
 
#10
Clanky, read up on the size of CVF, mate. CVS it ain't.

LPH Length ~200m, beam (oa) 34m, draft (~6m) Full load displ 21000 te

CVF length ~285m, beam (oa) 68m, draft (up to 11m), Full load displ over 65000 te
 
#11
Half the tour of Sh1tsville will be spent on the Rudmore Flyover, followed by the Unicorn Gate traffic lights and stuck in a jam on Mountbatten Way and, to cap it all, 2 hours spent at the f&cking gate waiting to get a f&cking pass before they can get back in!

Guess what kind of a week I've had! :x[/quote]


now true!
 
#12
Not_a_boffin said:
Clanky, read up on the size of CVF, mate. CVS it ain't.

LPH Length ~200m, beam (oa) 34m, draft (~6m) Full load displ 21000 te

CVF length ~285m, beam (oa) 68m, draft (up to 11m), Full load displ over 65000 te
Which is why I was only referring to the alleged difficulties in getting a CVS sized ship into Guzz! I've expressed my opinion(which, like an a**hole, every one's entitled to ) about likely baseporting of the CVF already.
 
#13
Nicks said:
I was chatting to our Harbour master today and the topic got round to Pompey Dockyard etc and he came out with this little story,so I thought in the interests of everyone on here I had better post it :

He is very matey with the Harbour master at Pompey and he said they were chatting about the Dockyard and closures etc and then he said that he has seen the plans for the Liner berth next to the Spinnaker Tower in Pompey because apparently Cunard are seriously thinking of pulling out of Southampton and moving to Pompey and berthing right next to all our Maritime History,that is also part reason they have done the Deep Water Channel into Pompey as well.
quote]
Couple of problems with this in that...
1. Its more likely that its Fountain lake that will be sold on for development as a Cruise terminal, (this idea has been knocking around for a while.)
2. Cunard has spent a couple of million on its terminal in Southampton, very unlikely to be moving in the near or far future.

The upshot is that its probably more likely to be P&O taking over the top end of the harbour and may offer a Cruise liner stop while expanding the ferry terminal.

My better half has a lot to do with the Bosses at Cunard/Crystal/other Cruise lines etc, so I have asked her to do some discreet digging but I don't expect any body will be talking about this in the cruise industry, but if I hear owt more will stick in on here.
 

trehorn2

Lantern Swinger
#14
Nicks said:
Lamri said:
Here's another one,

Pompey shuts because of the real estate value.
CVH/CVS find it difficult to get into Guzz because of draft so Portland gets re-opened and modernised.
He was a Navigator on Lusty as well and he said the down side of Guzz was getting in and out of the place as it was so busy as well as getting round Drake Island etc.
Watch sailor, the claim that in places the old Ark only had 3ft beneath her keal.

Out of interest, does anyone know where the term GUZZ came from? I heard it came from Guzzle (drink) and the old call sign of Plymouth during WWII. Any ideas?
 

smoothbore

Lantern Swinger
#15
I think that you'll find that the Naval Base study of about 5 years ago recommended that the CVF (assuming that they ever get built) can only be realistically operated from Rosyth. It has the access, the outer mole was originally built to take the Hood (and therefore has the depth of water for all conditions) and the Crombie armament depot (from which the CVF will have to rearm anyway) is nearby. Rosyth is not only the location for the assembly, it is the only place available for through life dockings.

This was supposed to have been accepted with the compromise that Portsmouth would remain the official home port, albeit it would probably spend most of its home port time at anchor at Spithead and only go along side at Main Leave periods in a light condition and probably after the weapon load had already been off loaded at Crombie!

As an aside, I believe that there was also an early proposal to close both Guzz & Pompey and to move all surface fleet assets to Tilbury once the new Thames container port is developed. Funnily enough that proposal was not accepted & didn't make publication!!!!!!
 

snorko

Lantern Swinger
#16
Clanky

Deepest Draught pussers ship is the SSBN (13m ish) I believe, and though it goes for refits in GUZZ ( and the quality of the refit is Sh**e ) it can only enter and leave GUZZ at certain states of tide. Not sure how much of a difference a 2m reduction in Draught would make. But if you are suggesting that the CVF might be based in Faslane .... pity the poor sods!!! However there is a deep water jetty at Glen Douglas - which is a midge infested pit miles from anywhere with no infrastructure!!
 
#17
clanky said:
Nicks said:
Lamri said:
Here's another one,

Pompey shuts because of the real estate value.
CVH/CVS find it difficult to get into Guzz because of draft so Portland gets re-opened and modernised.
He was a Navigator on Lusty as well and he said the down side of Guzz was getting in and out of the place as it was so busy as well as getting round Drake Island etc.
I'm detecting a slight whiff of bullsh here. The mighty O has (roughly)the same bottom plan as a CVS, she gets in and out of Guzz OK. Not forgetting that Lusty refitted there in 92/93. Anyone care to guess which class of capial ships has the deepest draught?Care to guess where they go for refit? How about guessing which pussers ship has the deepest draught, and where she is based. I suspect someone is clutching at straws.
The only flaw with that argument is the fact that if the wind picks up to around force 6 or 7, QHM do not allow the Ocean or the other LPD's past the sound do they. That means out and back in. Lets face it, it does get very blowy down there in the SWAPPS. ;-)
 

ANGWISH

Lantern Swinger
#18
smoothbore said:
I think that you'll find that the Naval Base study of about 5 years ago recommended that the CVF (assuming that they ever get built) can only be realistically operated from Rosyth. It has the access, the outer mole was originally built to take the Hood (and therefore has the depth of water for all conditions) and the Crombie armament depot (from which the CVF will have to rearm anyway) is nearby. Rosyth is not only the location for the assembly, it is the only place available for through life dockings.

This was supposed to have been accepted with the compromise that Portsmouth would remain the official home port, albeit it would probably spend most of its home port time at anchor at Spithead and only go along side at Main Leave periods in a light condition and probably after the weapon load had already been off loaded at Crombie!

As an aside, I believe that there was also an early proposal to close both Guzz & Pompey and to move all surface fleet assets to Tilbury once the new Thames container port is developed. Funnily enough that proposal was not accepted & didn't make publication!!!!!!
Sounds good, the new carriers should fit on the outer wall, but will they get under the bridges? The Bulwark just made it, the real Ark Royal could'nt. There is also the commercial aspect of using Rosyth. 180m tankers that can only get into Grangemouth at high tide competing for sailing times, also the river below the bridges getting closed to traffic for gas tankers sailing form mortimer's deep. Cargo ships sailing from Rosyth need to be considered as well. The powers that be may have thought of this, but then again, maybe not
 
#19
ANGWISH said:
Sounds good, the new carriers should fit on the outer wall, but will they get under the bridges? The Bulwark just made it, the real Ark Royal could'nt. There is also the commercial aspect of using Rosyth. 180m tankers that can only get into Grangemouth at high tide competing for sailing times, also the river below the bridges getting closed to traffic for gas tankers sailing form mortimer's deep. Cargo ships sailing from Rosyth need to be considered as well. The powers that be may have thought of this, but then again, maybe not
Your comment on the height is valid, but as the ships are to be built in Rosyth perhaps some one has thought about this. I certainly don't see 180m tankers going to Grangemouth, they do go to Hound Point below the Bridges though.

Yes the Forth is a busy place these days, but in reality big ship movement from either Hound Point or Braefoot is rarely more than one a day. I am quite sure that it is notwithout the wit of man or the RN to be able to fit in with other local users of the river. I even suspect that it would be easier than at Portsmouth or Plymouth. Equally the deap water channels ar reasonably wide and do not have any particularly sharp corners.
 
#20
Having been in Rosyth last week, I can guarantee that trying to fit the ship against the mole would :

a. Prevent access to the Babcocks basin, thereby stopping any commercial work.
b. Hamper commercial ship manoeuvring in what is now Europort Rosyth

Nothing to stop them basing at Crombie though - other than total lack of quarters and other support.
 

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