Pope Refuses To Break Bread With Bush

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by Bergen, Apr 12, 2008.

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  1. Pontiff will not attend dinner in his honour as Bush admits that he personally approved US torture of prisoners


    The White House has scheduled a dinner next week in honor of Pope Benedict XVI's first visit to the United States, but one guest will be conspicuously absent from the proceedings: the pope himself.

    There are no competing events listed on the pope's schedule, and the White House was unable to explain Benedict's absence from the dinner.

    Bush threatens reprisals against Tibet :thumright:

  2. Is it all about body languag in the second photo.Note the idots feet and the bloke behind him. :thumright:
  3. Clearly big Tony hasn't told the Pope that George W is his bestest friend in the whole World; after big G himself.
  4. Methinks the pope, as a former Nazi, is being more of a hypocrite than normal.
  5. You'd think they would have something in common then.The Shrubs Grand Daddy did business wiff em. :thumright:
  6. To be part of the Hitler Youth In those day's was hardly an option. Not all Germans in the War shared the Nazi Idealogy. So to call the Pope a former Nazi is wrong. The pope is Former Hitler youth, He was a child then and can be forgiven for that.
  7. The poor old Pope; M. Sarkozy texts while talking to him then he meets M. Shrub who really doesn't have a clue about anything.
    Honestly it would be enough to make an elderly ex nazi pop his lederhosen back on!
  8. My pal’s Mum is Austrian and was a member of the Hitlerjugend, as were his aunties and uncles. It helped to keep the family fed and out of prison. Was his Mum a Nazi? Well, she worked for the war effort by assembling instrument panels with hard to find defects for FW190s.

    As an atheist, I’m totally indifferent to the Pope. To brand him a Nazi just because he grew up in interesting times, though, is grossly unjust.
  9. No wonder he won't be there. He's dead! Thats JP in the pictures, not Benedict ...... innit?

  10. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    They were all Nazis at the time, but at wars end, it seemed that no-one had really supported Hitler.

    Quite amazing, really.
  11. I suppose we are all Nu Labour then fellas??
  12. There is a great deal of truth is POLs posting. What would many of us do if faced with similar circumstances. Sure we would all like to think that we would refuse to conform and would become part of the revolution hell bent on bringing down the tyrant ... until they began to line members of our families up against the wall that is.

    Sometimes it takes a lot of balls to just stay alive.

  13. There was a resistance group in all the occupied countries. They were put up against the wall when they were caught.

    There was no organised resistance (to speak of) in Germany.

    Of course, there were some dissenters, but these were soon denounced by the friendly, neighbourhood non-Nazis.

    The Catholic Church has a bad record in supporting Nazism, and were instrumental in helping many war criminals escape justice.
  14. Yes, fellas, but the difference between what we as ordinary blokes would have done and what the pope did is that he is (supposedly) God's infallible respresentative on earth. Somehow I can't imagine the big JC joining the Hitler Youth through fear of the consequences of refusing....
  15. Unfortunately the Catholic Church has a history of doing the wrong bloody thing in many situations over many hundreds of years.

    I am a firm believer that for every good deed that comes from organised religion, there is at least one bad one. But in fairness to Pope Benedict I believe he has done more than enough to make up for any misguided acts in his youth.

  16. I don't see the issue here. The pope was not the pope back in 1939 he was bog standard Josef Ratzinger. A normal bloke like everybody else. He was not already earmarked for Gods Infallible representative on earth. Im sure if there was any possibility there may be any real evil or Nazism running through his veins he would not be in the seat he is now. Im not much of a Christain these day's but i think its a bit daft to hold anybody upto the standards of JC even the pope. He was after all supposedly God incarnate. He without sin cast the first stone.
  17. The Nazis were at war within Germany for a lot longer than they were at war with other countries. There was a lot of resistance to the Nazis but the back of this resistance was eventually broken by Hitler. There was little help from outside and the open admiration and support for the Nazis by the English monarchy [which resulted in the most ardent English Nazi being packed off to be Governor of Bermuda to spend the war knobbing Wallace Simpson] did little to help the German resistance.

    One of the most able opponents of Hitler was Martin Niemöller (1892-1984). He was an ardent nationalist, prominent Protestant pastor and ex-U-boat commander who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last 7 years of Nazi rule in concentration camps. Many clerics both Catholic and Protestant ended up dead in the death-camps because they resisted.

    [Martin Niemöller was the son of a Lutheran pastor, Heinrich Niemöller, born in the Westphalian town of Lippstadt, Germany on January 14, 1892. In 1910 he became a cadet in the Imperial German Navy. With the outbreak of World War I in 1914, Niemöller was assigned to a U-Boat, of which he was eventually appointed the commander. Under the stipulations of the armistice of November 11, 1918, that ended hostilities in World War I, Niemöller and other commanders were shortly after ordered to turn over their U-Boats to England. Along with many others, Niemöller refused to obey this order, and was, as a consequence, discharged from the Navy].

    Seems to me that the Pope has spent his life making amends for the year of his life that was stolen from him by the Nazis when he was a 15 year old boy. Not bad going.



    What few people understand is that there were upwards of 10,000 Germans and Austrians who joined the British prior to WWII kicking off and fought bravely against the Nazis. Men like Sergeant Claus Leopold Octavio Ascher [40 Commando Royal Marines] or Sir Ken Adam who had the distinction of being the only German fighter pilot in the RAF.


    Claus Ascher was born in Berlin in 1922. After the Second World War broke out, he was quick to volunteer his services. “The war had broken out and we felt it was our affair as much as anyone else's,†he recalled. “We were very aware of the generosity and compassion of Britain. We owed a debt to this country for saving our lives. I wasn't opposed to Germany, but I certainly was interested in fighting the Nazis.'

    Like many others He took an English name. Anson said: 'My old name began with an A and, when I had to choose a new one, an Avro Anson twin-engine flew over, so I thought right, I'll have that.' Anson's father was a German First World War veteran who was disillusioned by Hitler's rise to power. He was identified as a political subversive, interned at Dachau concentration camp and murdered in 1937. Anson escaped to Britain just before his 17th birthday. In 1940 he volunteered for the armed forces, initially joining the only unit open to the refugees the non-combatant Pioneer Corps, known as 'the king's most loyal enemy aliens'. In 1942 enemy aliens were allowed to enlist in fighting units, and Anson was eventually attached to 40 Royal Marine Commando.

    The risks were high: Germans caught behind enemy lines were tortured and executed as traitors. Many of those who survived helped rebuild their homelands and hunt for Nazi war criminals before settling in Britain for good. They included Sir Ken Adam, the only German fighter pilot in the RAF, who became a production designer on more than 70 films, Lord Claus Moser, former chairman of the Royal Opera House, Martin Freud, the eldest son of Sigmund Freud, and John Langford, who was Churchill's bodyguard.

    The man who caught Britain's most notorious traitor was also German. Geoffrey Perry, born Horst Pinschewer, was a British army intelligence officer when he apprehended William Joyce, the propagandist 'Lord Haw Haw'. Perry, who witnessed fighting in Normandy and the horrors of Belsen concentration camp, said that, despite his nationality, he had met no hostility from fellow soldiers. 'The uniform was a common denominator. Whether you were born in Manchester or Berlin then was of little importance. They knew what you did for the army.' He added: 'The army changed my name for me. At 85, I have Perry grandchildren and my other name is long gone. If you asked my grandchildren I don't think they'd be able to spell it.'

    RM :thumright:
  18. See from a report on today's TORYGRAPH, he intends to pray at Ground Zero for the redemption of Islamic terrorists, as well as the victims of that awful day. He will call for terrorissts to convert to Christianity, which has seriously pissed off a lot of the Muslim hierarchy. Don't suppose many Elmers will be too happy either. As for his alleged Nazi past, forget about it - who among as at 15 didn't do dumbass things ? I certainly did.....
  19. This myth continues to be perptuated by apologists for the Nazis. In theory membership of the Hitlerjugend was compulsory in the later stages of Hitler's power, but the fact remains that there is only negligible evidence of anyone being prosecuted or in any way punished for refusing to join. What is interesting is that when Ratzinger was being educated he chose to join the local Hitlerjugend because he respected his Headmaster, who was sympathetic to the Nazis antisemitic policies. Antisemitism was rife in Christendom at that time and promoted by both Catholic and Protestant churchmen alike, with some notable exceptions: notable by their rarety! There were pupils at Ratzinger's school who refused to join and who experienced no detriment for having done so. I have little doubt that Ratzinger feels guilt about his past and, like a former President of Austria, is keen to erase it from the public gaze. This said one should not hold such things against people for the remainder of their lives. Ratzinger, like his predecessor, has taken a strongly anti-antisemitic stance within the Catholic church which is to be commended in a church hierarchy that is still largely antisemitic. My criticism of him is his lack of integrity in falsely claiming that he had no option but to join Hitlerjugend. Then again, I ask myself: would I have had the guts to not join in his position? I remain conscious that I have distant relatives in the Italian side of my family who were Cardinals and thus responsible for anti-Semitism (in the 17th and 18th centuries)!

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