Pompey News: "MoD Urged To Buy Cheaper Navy Jets"

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by soleil, Aug 2, 2011.

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  1. It's not all about the equipment though is it! It's also about the people who use it.

    Rather notoriously, the Yanks have all the cutting edge equipment but haven't got the brain cells to use it fully.

    I like to think the RN (and the Armed Forces in general) does an exceedingly good job with kit that isn't necessarily the best that money can buy.

    The F-18 is, technologically speaking, as old as the T-42 which, if they weren't falling apart, I'm sure would still be serving in the fleet and doing a fine job at that.

    Paul Livingston can do one - he's talking out of his ass.
  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Hmmn, interesting to see the F-18 (1980) considered a worthy replacement for the Sea Harrier, (The first RN squadron, 700A, being formed two months later than the F-18 first became operational).

    Oh well, at least the Harrier is only continuing to be operated by 3rd world countries, like the one who designed & built the F-18.
  3. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    The wider problem is the fact that the US is facing annual defence cuts to the tune of our entire defence budget each year for the next several years. JSF is failing to deliver a cheaper fighter, and is starting to look horribly exposed right now.
  4. Yep !! some 6 F35s by 2020 :pissedoff:Just an aside F-35 fleet grounded after electrical subsystem failure and Britain, U.S. Propose F-35 Fighter Exchange - Defense News
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  5. F-18E/F is to the original Hornets, what Harrier FA.2 or GR.9 was to the original GR.1s... the "upgrade" process basically consisted of parking a F-18C in a hangar, unbolting the wheels, lifting away the -C model and putting down an entirely new aircraft. (Then changing the wheels too, because they didn't fit any more). It's about the same shape, but the Hornet-E is to the Hornet-C what a Sukhoi-27 is to a MiG-29. (Same shape, 1.4x difference in dimensions, much more capability). It's not state-of-the-art or the latest & greatest, but it's reasonably up to date, it's in service with a good record, and it's a known quantity for performance and pricing. If ever there was a case for a MOTS buy, this was it.

    And one of the major attractions - to me, at least - is that while a F-18E might not be guaranteed to win every time in a simulated dogfight with a "projected, enhanced fifth-generation threat", there's a better chance with Hornet than JSF that we'll be able to:-
    a) buy enough of them to be useful,
    b) afford to fly them enough to train the crews properly,
    c) have some money left to buy the bolt-on accessories that make a real difference (targeting pods, improved weapons, sensor upgrades, what-have-you)

    But it's such a sane & sensible idea that it's bound to be rejected out of hand..
  6. Will it fit?

    F-35 Height 14"2`
    F-18C 15"4`
    F-18E 16"
  7. The Super Hornet, while looking like the older F-18s, is an all new aircraft. Very few similarities exist, look closely at the specs (google is your friend). You cannot compare it age-wise with the Harrier, it'd be more accurate to say it's the same generation as the EF Typhoon. It's a worthy alternative to the F-35.
  8. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    An F18 is only 18 inches high - is that the airfix version? ;-)
  9. Good enough for the Aussies so good enough for us I guess
  10. .

    The CVFs/Queen Elizabeths were designed to be "future proof" which included being sized to take future possible carrier aircraft - this would have included the "normal" USN hangar deck height.

    What is more important is that they were designed to have dedicated "maintenance bays" for the F-35 in the hangars - whether similar bays for, say, an F-18 will fit I don't know.

    However, I am sure that Cameron checked all this prior to changing everything around and that the only reason that he hasn't got around to telling everyone how the two different carriers will work operationally is because he wants to save the cost of a few sheets of A4 - he really does know how well it will work because he knows everything that the experts don't.

    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  11. Latest news on the grape vine is that both carriers are to be fitted with Cats and Traps..
  12. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

  13. :laughing2:Think you will find the TWO will never operate together!!! as one is going to be Mothballed ASAP after launch, and there will be loads of room for the 6 F 35s, in 2020 rising to a squadron of 12 F35s some years later on the 1 CVF
  14. I know nowt about aircraft but it seems to me everytime a Russian plane comes out it beats the crap out of everything that the world seems to have and the jaws drop all over the USA.
    Seems to me we could buy some really top aircraft at knockdown prices from them.
    The Soviets will sell anything now as they have the skill to produce top class aircraft[military not civil] but not so good with submarines it seems!
  15. Scouse think you're wrong on this one. All the "glossys" clearly show the two operating at sea and its in colour. What more proof do you need.
    Uk Aircraft Carrier New Build (CVF1 &2) | Marine Systems Technology | Engineering Projects
  16. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    Actually if you read the SDSR it quite clearly says that only one will be active, with the other mothballed or sold off in 2020.
  17. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    JTFC wonders will never cease - I'm finding myself agreeing with scouse. Poor guy, whats he done to deserve this ;-)

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