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Pompey News: "Jobs At Risk At Portsmouth Shipyard"

danny

War Hero
I've just been watching the local (Meridian) news and then ITN - what a load of bollix they are talking - the end of 800 years of ship building in Portsmouth. If the researchers researched then they'd see that ship building and NOT ship module construction ended in Pompey 40 odd years ago if not more. All the bits that are being built in Pompey are then barged to (for the 45s Scotstoun and Govan) Rosyth for final assembly.

Not a very big ship but HMS Clyde was 2006 and i think the Trinidadian navy had some after that.
 

tiddlyoggy

War Hero
Book Reviewer
danny, not quite true. BVT built some OPV's for the Trinidadian navy, similar to the River Class, we even went so far as to train their navy up by taking them to sea on our River Class, but they rejected the ships at the 11th hour IIRC. I don't think all of the 3 that they ordered were built in Pompey either, 1 or 2 were built on the Clyde (river not the ship) I think. Someone else bought them after Trin and Tobago pulled out, Brazil I'm thinking???? Either way, my mate lost out on a great jolly being the BVT rep in T&T as their ship manager!!
 
danny, not quite true. BVT built some OPV's for the Trinidadian navy, similar to the River Class, we even went so far as to train their navy up by taking them to sea on our River Class, but they rejected the ships at the 11th hour IIRC. I don't think all of the 3 that they ordered were built in Pompey either, 1 or 2 were built on the Clyde (river not the ship) I think. Someone else bought them after Trin and Tobago pulled out, Brazil I'm thinking???? Either way, my mate lost out on a great jolly being the BVT rep in T&T as their ship manager!!

It was indeed Brazil: Amazonas, Apa and Araguari but only Amazonas (ex-Trinidad & Tobago Port of Spain) was built at Portsmouth.

However, all three of the Royal Navy of Oman's Khareef class corvettes (Al-Shamikh, Al-Rahmani and Al-Rasikh) have been built at Portsmouth.
 

cjg375

Lantern Swinger
It was indeed Brazil: Amazonas, Apa and Araguari but only Amazonas (ex-Trinidad & Tobago Port of Spain) was built at Portsmouth.

Ah! Trinidad and Tobago. Now they know how to write a contract. BAE (BVT, FSL) miss some key milestones and the contract says the buyer can walk away. So, having a new government who didn't want the boats, that's what they did. Wish I could have seen the looks on the faces of the management then. Off course the T&T guys got the money for the boats from the yanks who then said if you ain't having the boats can we have our money back please. Doesn't stop the fact that we need their lawyers writing our contracts.


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FAAFLYNAVY

Lantern Swinger
Sad as these job losses are it's a wonder we still build any ships in the UK, if you've been watching the building of the Mersk triple E container ship "the largest ever built" in South Korea, it was completed from keel laying to launch in 28 weeks & well under budget, they are constructing a further 19 alongside their other existing orders.

It's a sure fire thing that if the new type 26's ever get the go-ahead they won't be built in UK/EU yards, & with the continual cost increases & time overruns why should the UK tax payers keep bailing the UK shipyards/workers out.

BAES/Qinetiq/Westland in their UK establishments are all looking to get out of military work as their main sourse of income ASAP, & who can blame them?
 
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Sharkey

Banned
Bit in the paper, if the Jocks give us the finger, when we need a ship building we will have to put out a Europe wide tender, and there is no guarantee it will be given to Scotland, also we will be the only country that cant build it own warships without a European partner
 
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There again, it's BASE that owns the Yards and runs the business. If a newly independent Govenment of Jockland decided to nationalise "their" resident shipbuilders, though, your concern could be realised.
 

tiddlyoggy

War Hero
Book Reviewer
FAA, do want a little wager about the 26's being built in the UK? I reckon they will be, read between the line wrt the new order for 3 OPV's.
 

slim

War Hero
Anyone else waiting to hear that the unions are calling for strike action over the decision:|
 

FAAFLYNAVY

Lantern Swinger
FAA, do want a little wager about the 26's being built in the UK? I reckon they will be, read between the line wrt the new order for 3 OPV's.

I'm skeptical about them being built for three reasons.

1/ the UK politicians lack of will & commitment to spend more money on the defence budget especially as it looks like whoever wins as the main party in 2015 there will be another coalition so it's doubtful if the order will ever get placed.

2/ I'm not convinced that the multinational BAEs & the like will want to be bothered in tooling up for such a risky/financially dysfunctional commitment within the UK.

3/ I doubt if we will still have the workforce skills left in the UK to undertake the work in such a competitive market.

We're now committed to buy our aircraft/drones/missiles/RFA ships from overseas builders, so why not our warships?
 
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jaggers

Lantern Swinger
I think this was a tough choice but the right one. Folks would have much better prospects to find new employment on the southern coast of England at the moment than in Scotland. Also a small price to pay if it helps preserve the union
 
I do think it's silly to be making peevish and childish threats to the next door neighbours. It brings to mind the Nip threat of moving Nissan away if we pull the black and yellows on dear old Europe; or at least their top Don says they might.
 

soleil

War Hero
The Observer:

Victory and defeat: shipbuilding founders in a changing climate

"Dave Harris, owner of Dave's Barber Shop just outside Portsmouth naval base, was sitting on one of his chairs, head in hands. He was bitterly sorry for the shipbuilders whose hair he had cut for years, and worried for his own business. That morning BAE Systems and the government had announced the end of 500 years of shipbuilding on the site with the loss of 940 jobs."

Victory and defeat: shipbuilding founders in a changing climate | Business | The Observer
 
Naval shipbuilding – subsidised entirely through the public purse

The next time I buy a new tyre for the car, I must remember that I'm subsidising the Tyre maker.

Perhaps he's implying that British built warships are more expensive than foreign ones and the price difference is the subsidy. If only the Treasury added that "subsidy" to the Defence Budget as a standard overhead. It wouldn't need to show on the Defence line. It could be show in a seperate Budget, say, the Strategic Industry Maintenance Fund. As I understand the EU rules, that wouldn't be illegal. It would need to be firmly managed, though, and not become a slush fund to support inefficiency, stupidity and greed.
 

danny

War Hero

This is what i hate about this section of Scotland they want independence but want all the benefits of being in the union as well.
If the UK government decided to start building ships in a foreign land why do it in Scotland? Why would we not go the way of RFAs and do it in Korea, or why not just tag on to what ever uncle sam is building and have the benefits of scale?
Why would building anything in Scotland be of any benefit to independent UK?
 

cjg375

Lantern Swinger
This is what i hate about this section of Scotland they want independence but want all the benefits of being in the union as well.
If the UK government decided to start building ships in a foreign land why do it in Scotland? Why would we not go the way of RFAs and do it in Korea, or why not just tag on to what ever uncle sam is building and have the benefits of scale?
Why would building anything in Scotland be of any benefit to independent UK?

It's alright Danny. Those of use who aren't in that section of Scotland hate it too. All these ideas that we can effectively give two fingers to the rest of the UK but they'll still bend over backwards to help us. We can have monetary union, build their ships, still have the Queen as head of state etc etc etc. They are totally barking and here's hoping they get the same result in the referendum as the Lib Dems did on changing election rules. A big, fat NO!


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RoundTower

Midshipman
I do think it's silly to be making peevish and childish threats to the next door neighbours. It brings to mind the Nip threat of moving Nissan away if we pull the black and yellows on dear old Europe; or at least their top Don says they might.

Chap in question (Carlos Ghosn) said exactly the same thing a few years ago about Nissan pulling out of the UK if we didn't join the Euro. Nothing happened. Slightly different with Scotland in that if they do vote for independence a couple of thousand jobs in Clyde shipyards going are the least of their worries, there could be an exodus of other defence businesses because various technical cooperation agreements between the UK and allies would cease to cover them.

But Scotland isn't going to vote for independence. For various reasons it suits the national political parties to pretend that they might, so they threaten them over this. Not sure why the coalition parties are chasing votes in Glasgow when they are effectively giving away two seats in Pompey, and it's pretty daft to claim that it's easier to find work in Pompey than Glasgow, but the realities of this haven't sunk in anywhere yet.
 
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