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Pompey News: "HMS Endurance - Flood was caused by Crew"

YouAreHavingALaugh

Lantern Swinger
Levers and Witsend,

I can see both of your views:

One being the procedures are different because of the ships fitted equipment itself

and the other

That engineering is engineering no matter what

I am aware of some of the issues onboard the ship itself also.

The way I see it is that:

The system in question was not the same set up as we are used to, ie two valve isolation

The procedures taken were apparently the only option at the time

The available resources to combat the eventual situation were inadequate

The s coy were excellent in their response and actions to achieve what they achieved

However it comes down to this

MANY serving persons knew of the ships faults and had highlighted to authorities

MANY knew and did not

Those that were in positions to make changes to the situation did nothing for maybe several reasons, not wanting to rock the boat, not wanting to be prevented promotion be it they were civilian or serving and maybe the money concern involved


Bottom line to say that no one was responsible was a joke.

There may have been bad practice onboard, but this comes from bad support and overview from ashore.

The responsible people should have been the high up posts making the decisions to ignore all that had been passed to them by the crew over many years, but it cannot be seen that they made errors that cost millions of pounds and luckily not lives.

They will move on to other posts and make the same judgements which will hopefully not have the same consequences on another vessel.

Cynically I could say if the accident was down to a no body then they would have been court marshalled

But as it was down to many and some being high up it was just a thing that occured with nobody at fault.

Look after your own or what!!
 

clanky

War Hero
Whilst the Plum has systems and equipments unique to the RN, in the commercial sector she would be just another support vessel, albeit a specialised one. I cant imagine a similar scenario arising in the wider industry. Perhaps some of us who are still seving need to look outside the comfort zone of the RN and adapt some commercial practices.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
Sorry Levers, as much as I'm usually impressed (except once a long time ago) by your world view and way with words, I can't see this your way. However badly the ship was served by those ashore, the idea of a bunch of ME Senior Rates not being able to figure out what wasn't wrong with the evap, not thinking 'what if' not just at the beginning of the ill-conceived evolution but throughout it, being the fault of anyone ashore doesn't stand up. This was a cock up cubed, on the ship, on the day, by members of the ship's company.

No-one done the evap course? FFS it's not a warp engine, a Tiff or Mechanic (I know - Technician) should be able to figure it out from first principles, previous experience (other evaps), having a good look, apply some thought and the BR. Sea system cross connected and nobody knew, not even the EOsOW? Situational awareness, big picture, finger on the pulse, know your systems, it is all basic. Oh and the MEO doesn't come out of it with the Montgomery Scott Award for figuring stuff out.

That sorry tale made me hang my head in shame. Naval engineering standards? Shudder.

How many Chiefs does it take to clean a sea water strainer? I'm aware (from the BOI) that many were in POs' posts but WTF? JRs all on leave? Which leads me to......
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
YouAreHavingALaugh wrote:
The procedures taken were apparently the only option at the time

Are we reading the same report? Cleaning the strainer wasn't even necessary (Para 102). As for the procedure adopted to do something unecessary in 'hostile' waters, it wasn't the only option and wasn't the safest (Annex B.)
 

SEP86

War Hero
Some important lessons to all of us I would say. No matter which branch or where in the chain we are. This happens to be an ME example, but many of the factors could easily apply to any branch. A couple of points I noted for future reference:

Inadequate system knowledge
Safe System Of Work
Inadequate Risk Assessment
Poor Analysis
Not referring to documentation
Awareness of configurations
Complicated process over watch change
Do we accept poor design? Para 74.

Lets hope we can learn something.
 

angry_mac

War Hero
No we dont accept poor design, hence the S2022 system, which does work, but then the MEs arent really well known for their engineering admin.
 
For what's it's worth, I think this thread is Rum Ration at it's best!

Now, as a non-clanky poking his nose into affairs he knows nothing about, I'm with SEP86. Whatever happened to Endurance is past tense, good or bad. The stark fact remains we have lost a valuable ship we can ill afford to lose; let's learn from the incident and move on. Sadly, I fear for political, financial, egotistical, self promotional or just sheer bloody mindeness, something like this will probably happen again............
 

SEP86

War Hero
angry_mac said:
No we dont accept poor design, hence the S2022 system, which does work, but then the MEs arent really well known for their engineering admin.

You are right mac - the point I was making though is that it is easy for the BOI to suggest that the design of strainer could have been improved by adding wing nuts or a quick release mechanism but do we really think that would have happened? Even if a 2022 had been raised?
 

UncleAlbert

War Hero
Levers loyalty is commendable but IMHO misplaced…this whole episode was a prime example of bad engineering practice …. This situation occurred because the air operating lines where reconnected wrongly….these air operated valves are not peculiar to the Red Plum but it was unusual that the fittings on both lines were the same….however its only common DF to MARK these lines on removal so that anyone can reassemble them correctly…..this obviously wasn’t done….just a bit of duct tape or a dab with a felt tip or even a dirty finger smear…anything to see which pipe is which ..would have saved them a lot of bother….



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