Political Bollocks

Waspie

War Hero
When you have everything you want and need, how can you be envious of anyone else? That's my situation. If you are unable to comprehend that then there is no point conversing with you. My concern is not "dragging people down", as you put it, but giving those with nothing a chance. You know, the kids with hungry bellies, too afraid to go home to listen to drug fueled arguing. No doubt you think they deserve it. Hopefully my boy will finish his training soon and i will be off this site. Too many here who have a cozy life and no thoughts of those worse off than them. Politics of envy? Some here seem to suffer from politics of put the boot into those who are down but kiss the backsides of those with all the cash. If my boy were to forget where he comes from and what he has witnessed like that I will sort him out in short time, and if I'm too old or passed away his mother certainly will.
Thats an interesting statement!
Are you not going to allow your lad a mind of his own then!
 

Supportive Dad

Lantern Swinger
Thats an interesting statement!
Are you not going to allow your lad a mind of his own then!
I argue with plenty of people on this subject, most of whom are ancient like me and also came from very humble beginnings and now are Daily Mail subscribers and Tory voters. My boy comes from a comfortable home but he has seen plenty in school who are at the very bottom of the heap. We've had long talks about it. When he's an adult, these contemporaries of his are going to be where? Jail, drug dealing etc, the chances of any of them pulling through are so slim. If he turns into a raging Tory blaming people like that I think I will have every justification to feel aggrieved.
 

slim

War Hero
I argue with plenty of people on this subject, most of whom are ancient like me and also came from very humble beginnings and now are Daily Mail subscribers and Tory voters. My boy comes from a comfortable home but he has seen plenty in school who are at the very bottom of the heap. We've had long talks about it. When he's an adult, these contemporaries of his are going to be where? Jail, drug dealing etc, the chances of any of them pulling through are so slim. If he turns into a raging Tory blaming people like that I think I will have every justification to feel aggrieved.
No problem
Just send him to a Woke Uni and he will finish with a useless degree, debt he will never repay as he will not earn enough.
However he will respect all the benefit claimants and those who feel society owes them everything they want
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
When you have everything you want and need, how can you be envious of anyone else? That's my situation. If you are unable to comprehend that then there is no point conversing with you. My concern is not "dragging people down", as you put it, but giving those with nothing a chance. You know, the kids with hungry bellies, too afraid to go home to listen to drug fueled arguing. No doubt you think they deserve it. Hopefully my boy will finish his training soon and i will be off this site. Too many here who have a cozy life and no thoughts of those worse off than them. Politics of envy? Some here seem to suffer from politics of put the boot into those who are down but kiss the backsides of those with all the cash. If my boy were to forget where he comes from and what he has witnessed like that I will sort him out in short time, and if I'm too old or passed away his mother certainly will.

Your first response to the challenge of your initial post was to personalise it and take offence. You then progressed onto insulting others and the projection of ideals that are assumed but not actually been stated swiftly followed with the "I don't want to hear it" and expressing satisfaction in leaving as if that wins the points. This is common amongst those who profess to be left-leaning and is further demonstration that their lack of practical resolution to the problems they present which is a severe source of frustration for them so they get angry and lash out, demonizing the "opposition" so it gives them comfort not to have to engage in a productive manner. Like a junky, it is the hit they are after and bugger the consequences. They delight in "giving it to the man" but have no real answers.

Would it not be better to discuss rather than just flounce? No, because the latter is the easier and heaven forbid that "deeply held convictions" can be challenged and even changed. And also, it saves having to make any real change to the world we live in because, well, you can't. It's been tried, in multiple ways in multiple places, and it has NEVER worked. Not even close.

If you cannot argue your point without resorting immediately to the above, then tell me - did you ever really have a point to make?
 

Waspie

War Hero
I argue with plenty of people on this subject, most of whom are ancient like me and also came from very humble beginnings and now are Daily Mail subscribers and Tory voters. My boy comes from a comfortable home but he has seen plenty in school who are at the very bottom of the heap. We've had long talks about it. When he's an adult, these contemporaries of his are going to be where? Jail, drug dealing etc, the chances of any of them pulling through are so slim. If he turns into a raging Tory blaming people like that I think I will have every justification to feel aggrieved.
So no answer, just a statement of your personal past!
 

Supportive Dad

Lantern Swinger
Your first response to the challenge of your initial post was to personalise it and take offence. You then progressed onto insulting others and the projection of ideals that are assumed but not actually been stated swiftly followed with the "I don't want to hear it" and expressing satisfaction in leaving as if that wins the points. This is common amongst those who profess to be left-leaning and is further demonstration that their lack of practical resolution to the problems they present which is a severe source of frustration for them so they get angry and lash out, demonizing the "opposition" so it gives them comfort not to have to engage in a productive manner. Like a junky, it is the hit they are after and bugger the consequences. They delight in "giving it to the man" but have no real answers.

Would it not be better to discuss rather than just flounce? No, because the latter is the easier and heaven forbid that "deeply held convictions" can be challenged and even changed. And also, it saves having to make any real change to the world we live in because, well, you can't. It's been tried, in multiple ways in multiple places, and it has NEVER worked. Not even close.

If you cannot argue your point without resorting immediately to the above, then tell me - did you ever really have a point to make?
Discuss away. I'm happy to do that. Do it nearly every day. Let's leave the tired cliches out though eh? As for practical solutions that was my profession for 30 odd years so as I say fire away. You consistently claim I am envious, I don't know how many times I have to say it but I have a large and loving family and all the wealth I need. I am only envious of those my age 67 who can run and move without pain. That's it. So if we start with an acceptance that envy has nothing whatsoever to do with it we might make progress.
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
Discuss away. I'm happy to do that. Do it nearly every day. Let's leave the tired cliches out though eh? As for practical solutions that was my profession for 30 odd years so as I say fire away. You consistently claim I am envious, I don't know how many times I have to say it but I have a large and loving family and all the wealth I need. I am only envious of those my age 67 who can run and move without pain. That's it. So if we start with an acceptance that envy has nothing whatsoever to do with it we might make progress.

I do not consistently claim you are envious - I stated it at the beginning that the discontent with rich (read: super-rich) people is usually the politics of envy, which I then explained to you but you insist on taking it personally. So be it.

I am interested on what you would see as a viable means of first stripping the mega-wealthy of their holdings and then preventing others from accumulating the same. This seems to be the source of your disgust so other than simply tutting loudly and declaring it obscene, what practical methods have you devised to reverse that situation?

I take it that is what you want to achieve - real change, rather than just making facile statements on how awful it all is.

All the best to your family.
 

Sumo

War Hero
I do not consistently claim you are envious - I stated it at the beginning that the discontent with rich (read: super-rich) people is usually the politics of envy, which I then explained to you but you insist on taking it personally. So be it.

I am interested on what you would see as a viable means of first stripping the mega-wealthy of their holdings and then preventing others from accumulating the same. This seems to be the source of your disgust so other than simply tutting loudly and declaring it obscene, what practical methods have you devised to reverse that situation?

I take it that is what you want to achieve - real change, rather than just making facile statements on how awful it all is.

All the best to your family.
Then one has to define Rich, super rich etc. Some totally legally, build up business, employ lots of people, in a way spread wealth to there employees, never enough and pay rises always to low.

Some make vast amounts on the back of very dodgy deals, Putin's inner circle comes to mind and Donald Trump, there will be many more.

Then we have the one off good at something and get paid lots, Sporting personalities, Media, Films, music, these industries supposedly bring joy to millions, some have proven not to be the sharpest pencils in the box.

How would you choose who's wealth you go after and how? In the global economy, those with loads of dosh can almost avoid paying taxes, by moving around themselves and holding their money in of shore accounts. The rest of us work pay our dues and hope to get comfortable sometime in life. not all achieve that. Some never get a good start in life and nothing really changes through their life.
Is there a solution who knows, not I, those with lots are not going to roll over and give it up, one strange for instance is those that make $M from the gun industry in America, they are so powerful not even their government can currently take them on?
 

Supportive Dad

Lantern Swinger
I would support measures to (a) reduce offshore holdings and (b) tax mega-rich more than now. Precisely how it is done I am afraid I don't know, I am a retired civil engineer not a tax expert. If they feel they want to go elsewhere as a result then fine, more wealth creators will follow, we haven't even heard of the best ones as they haven't had a chance to get started yet. I would support more aid for start up business such as grants and reduced rents. Most of the billions of quantitative easing stayed in the financial sector, it never made it to anyone who needed it. I would restore the $20 to benefit claimants. I would support 3 free meals a day for certain kids. Large numbers get no evening meal at home. I would support PR at the ballot box. I would support nationwide infrastructure projects. I don't believe HS2 is the best way to spend money for the UK as a whole. I would support closer links with the EU. There we go. Does that lot make me a Marxist or particularly left leaning?
 

Supportive Dad

Lantern Swinger
Some make vast amounts on the back of very dodgy deals, Putin's inner circle comes to mind and Donald Trump, there will be many more.
We have one particular political party taking large sums off Russians. A member of another party had a large donation off a Chinese person. Whether they be Russians, Chinese or whatever, there doesn't appear to be much control over this practice. I very much doubt Russian or Chinese money is free from corruption and crime in one way or another.
 

slim

War Hero
I would support measures to (a) reduce offshore holdings and (b) tax mega-rich more than now. Precisely how it is done I am afraid I don't know, I am a retired civil engineer not a tax expert. If they feel they want to go elsewhere as a result then fine, more wealth creators will follow, we haven't even heard of the best ones as they haven't had a chance to get started yet. I would support more aid for start up business such as grants and reduced rents. Most of the billions of quantitative easing stayed in the financial sector, it never made it to anyone who needed it. I would restore the $20 to benefit claimants. I would support 3 free meals a day for certain kids. Large numbers get no evening meal at home. I would support PR at the ballot box. I would support nationwide infrastructure projects. I don't believe HS2 is the best way to spend money for the UK as a whole. I would support closer links with the EU. There we go. Does that lot make me a Marxist or particularly left leaning?
I would support some of your points.
However before giving away tax payer money to give £20 and free meals to benefit claimants I would require each and everyone of them to undergo a financial review of ALL income received and ALL outgoings.
Far too many on benefits are paying off debts incurred due to financial stupidity and alcohol and drug use.
Why should the taxpayer support them in these cases?
As for the children.
If they need three meals a day due to feckless parenting than set up meal clubs in the area to feed the kids not the parents habits
 

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