Political Bollocks

Dredd

War Hero
Everyone with the new style driving licence is carrying an ID card, something the anti brigade probably haven't thought of or realised, and you have to re-new it every 10 years, so a stealth tax to boot.

Win-win for the government.
Wrong. The objection is not about carrying any ID at all - it was about being forced to carry one and having your right to choose being removed.

I am not forced to drive - I chose to. I am not forced to get a passport - I can choose to stay in the UK. I am not forced to carry a MOD90 - but it is a condition of the service that I choose to be part of.

And since I already carry all of the above, having to carry another one really would be a stealth tax for a completely unnecessary piece of card I don't need as I already have a minimum of 3 on me at all times. Why would I need another one? I don't. So I object to being forced to pay for something I don't need and won't do the job it is purportedly meant to do anyway. Another example of governmental waste and I am surprised at the number of people who advocate it while complaining about "big" government and State interference.

The accusation of those who think this is all a pile of brown and smelly stuff is because they have something to hide has the same credence as looking at someone on the street and saying they look a bit shifty. Those with something to truly hide will quickly find ways to defeat the system - look at the roaring trade of false IDs for under-agers. And that is just so they can get a pint at the local!
 

Knotty

Lantern Swinger
Wrong. The objection is not about carrying any ID at all - it was about being forced to carry one and having your right to choose being removed.

I am not forced to drive - I chose to. I am not forced to get a passport - I can choose to stay in the UK. I am not forced to carry a MOD90 - but it is a condition of the service that I choose to be part of.

And since I already carry all of the above, having to carry another one really would be a stealth tax for a completely unnecessary piece of card I don't need as I already have a minimum of 3 on me at all times. Why would I need another one? I don't. So I object to being forced to pay for something I don't need and won't do the job it is purportedly meant to do anyway. Another example of governmental waste and I am surprised at the number of people who advocate it while complaining about "big" government and State interference.

The accusation of those who think this is all a pile of brown and smelly stuff is because they have something to hide has the same credence as looking at someone on the street and saying they look a bit shifty. Those with something to truly hide will quickly find ways to defeat the system - look at the roaring trade of false IDs for under-agers. And that is just so they can get a pint at the local!
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective Dredd.
If I was in the UK illegally and I was asked to produce my I.D. then it would be conceivable that I could just say that I don't drive so I don't have a license, don't travel abroad so don't have a passport. Therefore how does someone in authority decide that this person should not be here?
If it was law to carry and produce a UK I.D. card upon request by an authorised person or person then it would deal with the problem or am I missing something?
Furthermore, plod gets given false names on countless occasions so surely this would speed up their work too?
 

Sumo

War Hero
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective Dredd.
If I was in the UK illegally and I was asked to produce my I.D. then it would be conceivable that I could just say that I don't drive so I don't have a license, don't travel abroad so don't have a passport. Therefore how does someone in authority decide that this person should not be here?
If it was law to carry and produce a UK I.D. card upon request by an authorised person or person then it would deal with the problem or am I missing something?
Furthermore, plod gets given false names on countless occasions so surely this would speed up their work too?
the bit missing is we would have to pay for new ID whilst we already pay for driving license and passport, if they are adamant we should have them, issue them free to everyone with a valid driving license & passport, simple
 

Dredd

War Hero
the bit missing is we would have to pay for new ID whilst we already pay for driving license and passport, if they are adamant we should have them, issue them free to everyone with a valid driving license & passport, simple
Now that is a concept I could get behind. So only those who do not have any other form of valid ID would need one.
 

Dredd

War Hero
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective Dredd.
If I was in the UK illegally and I was asked to produce my I.D. then it would be conceivable that I could just say that I don't drive so I don't have a license, don't travel abroad so don't have a passport. Therefore how does someone in authority decide that this person should not be here?
If it was law to carry and produce a UK I.D. card upon request by an authorised person or person then it would deal with the problem or am I missing something?
Furthermore, plod gets given false names on countless occasions so surely this would speed up their work too?
I am looking at it from the nut end, not the sledgehammer.
 
If the govt were to make a biometric ID free for everyone then fair enough. If we have to start paying for the privilege of being a citizen of the UK then I would not agree with it. We pay enough taxes (most of us anyway) as it is so should not be fleeced further for something that the govt insists we have.

Now as for the TV licence.........................
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
Done properly the ID card could contain your driving licence details as well. It would come in for all sorts of uses, ie no ID no NHS treatment without payment up front (standfast emergencies), want dole money where's the ID. Employed where's your ID (would help stop those that work and claim if the systems were joined up.) You could go further and have it as a joint bank card as well with the Banks paying in for using it. I honestly can't see the problem with them and like a lot on here I was required to carry some sort of ID for many years (1960 - 1998).
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Wrong. The objection is not about carrying any ID at all - it was about being forced to carry one and having your right to choose being removed.

I am not forced to drive - I chose to. I am not forced to get a passport - I can choose to stay in the UK. I am not forced to carry a MOD90 - but it is a condition of the service that I choose to be part of.

And since I already carry all of the above, having to carry another one really would be a stealth tax for a completely unnecessary piece of card I don't need as I already have a minimum of 3 on me at all times. Why would I need another one? I don't. So I object to being forced to pay for something I don't need and won't do the job it is purportedly meant to do anyway. Another example of governmental waste and I am surprised at the number of people who advocate it while complaining about "big" government and State interference.

The accusation of those who think this is all a pile of brown and smelly stuff is because they have something to hide has the same credence as looking at someone on the street and saying they look a bit shifty. Those with something to truly hide will quickly find ways to defeat the system - look at the roaring trade of false IDs for under-agers. And that is just so they can get a pint at the local!
Have to disagree with some of that, yes, you have the ability to choose to have a passport or a driving licence but they're needed for identification more and more.

for instance, if you need to collect a parcel from the post office,they normally require photo ID, passport or driving licence preferred as they're limited to what they can accept, same as some big shops like the Co-op, my local one has a big poster showing what is acceptable and what isn't.

similarly, the company I work for require photo ID as part of the Right to Work documentation.
Like it or not, it's creeping in.
 

Sumo

War Hero
My missex stopped driving
Have to disagree with some of that, yes, you have the ability to choose to have a passport or a driving licence but they're needed for identification more and more.

for instance, if you need to collect a parcel from the post office,they normally require photo ID, passport or driving licence preferred as they're limited to what they can accept, same as some big shops like the Co-op, my local one has a big poster showing what is acceptable and what isn't.

similarly, the company I work for require photo ID as part of the Right to Work documentation.
Like it or not, it's creeping in.
my misses stopped driving and her passport ran out, she felt she had to get another passport for proof of ID?
 

huwshpis

War Hero
My Inn of Court provides us with photo ID cards to prove that we're members of the Inn, and our status (Student, Barrister or Bencher). It doesn't prove (if we're Barristers) that we're entitled to practise, nor does the card that the Bar Council gives us - we can only use that to get discounts (via a website)! I've never been asked for my Inn ID.
 

Wightsparker

War Hero
.......I've never been asked for my Inn ID.

I'm sure I've spun this dit before, but it does have a kind of relevance. Years ago, MoD Plod at what used to be the Main Gate at Portsmouth Dockyard ( now Victory Gate) decided they would check ID cards or passes as people went out as well as when they came in.

Never mind the thousands of visitors to HMS Victory, who were never asked for ID, Service and Civil Service personnel had to comply. One CINCNAVHOME officer was hacked off that having been asked to produce his ID card, it was never examined properly when walking in either direction.

He therefore - and illegally - altered his ID card by simply sticking on a picture of the back of his head. It worked for some time, until he was challenged by a Plod with the nickname of Happy. (no prizes for his surname).

Happy called the officer back and asked to see the card again. He looked at it, looked at the officer again, and then said: "Would you mind turning around, please, sir?"

The moral of the story? Dunno,really, but if everyone has to carry ID cards there will be some who abuse them and jobsworths who will make life more difficult for some.
 

Sumo

War Hero
That reminds me, skipper of Sultan visiting skipper of Collingrad, didn't have his IS card. They wheeled his car into the search bay had it up on Jack's wheels off, Sultan chappy spitting feathers. Skipper of head walks down missing himself, a day to irate Sultan chappy, don't try to get into my establishment with our ID.
when returning off sure at the Grad we tried to see what we could get away with flashing at the sentrey, any card, wallet, blue line packet, most worked.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Oppo of mine was given 9's for one of his many offences and one job he was given was cleaning the Reg Office after secure so he made up a load of ID cards.

As he had a full set, the photo was of a gorilla, official number 007, rank of Admiral. He used it for years and never got picked up :)
 

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