Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was white'

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by slim, Jul 20, 2007.

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  1. I f he is right I wish him all the best and hope he is successful. I do not think though he is either the first white, or male to use the discimination law in cases such as these.

    Mind you just because the Wail got one article right does not mean they have got this one right, one swallow does not a summer make.
     
  2. But one swallow is the start of a good pint of beer (or bad pint sometimes)
    I don't know if the Mail has it right or not, however it is time that those in positions of authority who are using positive discrimination should be aware that the racial equality laws are a double edged sword.
    Unfortunately in this case I believe that the right person was probably promoted to the right position. However as this went against current procedures it would have helped if the police management team had called both officers into a meeting, explained the decision and treated the affair with a little diplomacy.
     
  3. Discrimination is discrimination which ever way it goes, it is as simple as that.

    I am not that sure a Sikh is going to be any more effective if the problem is Islamic than a christian, or if some one most likely of Indian descent is going to cut that much ice with a population where the natural allegiance is to Pakistan. The reality is that just because some one is 'coloured' they will be more acceptable in a 'coloured' community of a different background to the person is a falacy. Some years ago I was told a 'joke' by a septic whos ancestors had had one of those assisted passsages from Africa to the US abouth the Thais, A Thai gentleman finds himself in a lift with an Indian and a cobra (hissy version) He has a gun with one bullet, what does he do, shoot the Indian.
     
  4. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit

    Wasn't he offered promotion if he moved to another area, something not unusual in a lot of organisations; they don't want people staying in the same job in the same area for too long.
    The offer was withdrawn when he started his legal action.
     
  5. Surely if you were a Manager of a Uniformed Disciplined Service you would feel that you have the right to promote and place into a job any member of staff who is both qualified and is considered by YOU to be the best person for the job. Not just have to follow a system of "BUGGINGS TURN" even if they are not the person you want in that position.

    Discrimination NO WAY.

    Nutty
     
  6. Sorry but whilst the mob may have changed the way it promotes people(for the better I think) that doesn't alter the fact that if there is a procedure that is laid down, perhaps enshrined in regulations or TOS, it must be followed. If the system is broken change it, but you cannot see off a man who rightly expects to get promoted (and of course is considered in all respects ready for that promotion) just because you consider that a different set of (non-professional) criteria are met by someone else. At the very least I would have expected a very senior manager to personally explain why this decision was being made (which of course may have happened in this case). IF WYP broke its own rules in order to promote Sgt Singh ahead of Sgt Richmond based on their racial profiles that is discrimination.

    IMD
     
  7. Ach, us Jocks have seen it for years.
     
  8. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit

    The most qualified and senior person should get the job, hope he's right and goes all the way with his fight.
     
  9. So the general consensous of opinion is, its buggings turn so even if I think I have a person better suited for the job I have to promote the most senior person. Some of the Submarine Officers I knew must have got their appointments that way.

    I doubt if the Police Fore in question has any regulations stating that people have to be promoted by seniority but it has probally been general practice over the past 100 years.

    Nutty
     
  10. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit

    To quote from the article

    "But senior officers ignored force protocol and promoted Kash Singh ahead of him as a "token representative", he told an employment tribunal"

    If the force in question has protocols why didn't they stick to them?
     
  11. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit

    I tend to agree with Nutty..
    Too many people have been promoted via 'Dead mens shoes' who were plainly not up to the job, despite time served.
    As with most things there is probably an awful lot more to this than at first meets the eye.
    A relation of mine is a policeman and from what I hear from him a lot of procedures, protocols, and routines seem far from what a modern employer should be using. A problem with an organisation which regulates itself?
    Perhaps it differs from force to force; it does not seem to be standardised nationwide.
    ps I have never understood the need for some many different police forces, seemingly almost by county. Can anyone explain?
     
  12. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit



    IN HIS OPINION NOT IN HIS LINE MANAGERS OPINION


    Nutty
     
  13. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit

    Empires both within the Police and Within Local/County Council.

    Most forces started out as Borough Forces and then slowly amalgermated into bigger and bigger units until we had City and County forces now we are due another round which will reduce it down to 20 odd forces. Give it another fifty years and it will be National Forces.

    Sorry 33 new forces see

    Police



    Nutty
     
  14. I'm sure some legal beagle can give the precise definition but this is call Accepted Practise I believe. If something is not laid down in black and white but "has been general practice over the past hundred years" it is enforcable under employment law. In the mob for example commissioned officers have no contract and sign nothing when joining but they have to comply with the various regulations governing length of service, promotion, submission of notice or resigning.

    A question, why doubt that there are any regulations governing promotion in what is after all a uniformed and disciplined service? I would go in completely the opposite direction and say that I will be amazed if they don't have them, even if only as yard arm clearers.

    IMD
     

  15. In my day

    Not what I said about regulations, I said I doubt if they have a (This one singular) regulation that says you must promote the man who has passed his exam the longest time ago i.e the most senior in time qualified officer.

    Like Commissioned Officers, all Police men are sworn in, as Constables and what ever rank are still constables in the authority granted to them by the Crown. As it is with Commissioned Officers in the RN. Us scabs on the Lower Deck were just hired mercenaries who signed a contract to do as we were directed under the Naval Discipline Act (of whatever year).

    In fact when I first joined in the 70's it was only the Met who promoted you if you passed your Sergeants or Inspectors exam as a right. In the Counties you could pass both and remain a Constable to the end of your service if your face did not fit re. Golf, Mason's, Pigeon Fancier etc.

    Nutty
     
  16. My bold just to reiterate that RN commissioned officers don't sign. swear or attest but are still held to the regulations and what is accepted practice, as should, IMO, WYP. As I said above if it is the system that is broken fix it but in the mean time the existing rules or regulations or protocols or accepted practice should be followed. Remember the outcry ever time the points were changed?

    IMD
     
  17. Re: Policeman 'passed over for promotion because he was whit

    Now I see, sort of!
    But, cannot see what would be wrong with a single national police force, and with local police (bobbies on the beat) for towns eg As is done in Spain and other countries.
    But, again I understand that protocol over a number of years can become accepted, and thus some sort of legal agreement - a bit like rights of way - it would then be open to the lawyers to sort out the relevance of it.
     
  18. IND

    Are we saying that Commisioned Officer do not swear an oath of alligence to the Monarch well I am suprised.

    Nutty
     
  19. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    Pongo & Crab officers swear allegiance. The loyalty of Royal Naval officers to the monarch is above suspicion and they have therefore NEVER been formally sworn. An officer's position and authority is formally defined in his commission which always used to be issued to him on confirmation as Sub Lt (?same today?), and which confirms him in the authority of the Crown over those junior to him.

    E2R Commissions were however signed with a rubber stamp. Can't speak for GIVR but those of EVIIIR (not many!) and before were personally signed by the monarch. How GVR managed in the Great War I can't think.
     

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