Our RoE are rubbish, but have you seen the video, I like the bit where the upper deck sentry nails the guy on the RIB with a single shot in the dark, well thats naval gunnery for you!
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:Not qualified in any way, shape or form to comment on Armed Police procedures, or whether Jean Charles was killed because he was a real risk. But if my son was going about his reasonable business, even if he had stayed beyond his visa permit, I'd be desolate if he was shot to death for something that was absolutely nothing to do with him.
It is entirely reasonable that the de Menezes family should be given the dignity of an open public enquiry. It won't bring the poor boy back, but it would show that UK plc admits its mistakes and treats the bereaved in a humane manner. It would also help the family to begin to put this horrific sequence of events behind them.
ThePunisher said:Sorry, but I'm sick of hearing police officers using stress/pucker factor etc as an excuse for POOR DRILLS.
Even allowing for adrenalin, why was it deemed necessary to shoot a man while he was being restrained by an other officer? He was not carrying or wearing ANYTHING that could have contained explosives. His arms were pinned, so he could not have reached for any type of concealed weapon.
After the SAS stormed the Iranian Embassy, they found one of the terrorists hiding among the hostages. There was no doubt to his identity but, because he was unarmed, the Hooligans took him alive.
If a police officer, even under extreme stress, shoots a man who is being restrained, who could not possibly be concealing explosives on his person, then that officer should never be allowed to bear arms again. He is simply not good enough.
The worrying thing is that SO19 is supposed to be the top police firearms unit in the UK, But they have'nt exactly covered themselves with glory since 7/7; one innocent man shot dead and another wounded.
Agreed, coming from a long line of fedaralis that is correct. Soldiers do train for the most part and the feds do it every day. Anybody see combat missions? It was a competition in the states between all the "elite" units, Seals, USMC recon, SWAT, Delta etc. Everyone excelled in their own areas of fitness and drills, the cops suffered a bit on the running and swimming etc. but SWAT kicked ass on the hostage rescue ans all shooting tests. In the end it came down to 2 men in a dircet shooting match, one shot deal, of course SWAT won. Why? Because they are at war 24/7, often with little backup. Unfortunately for the feds in London they fcuked up in a big loud public way, it happens, not sure they should have got away with it, but then none of us were there and only know what we are told from the press, so for that we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.Nutty said:Also what are these poor drills. After 20+ years on the mean streets of South London who gives feck about drills, Plod faces 30 or 40 different situations on each shift. They can't even cover all the beats let alone do drills. They are not soldiers who train for 51 weeks and do it for 1, its 8 hours a day every day for real.
UncleAlbert said:However, a couple of points. Whether or not the man had a bomb when he was confronted is really not pertinent. It is the actions of the police that are under examination. There is a very thin dividing line between people who are prepared to use violence and particularly those who are prepared to use bombs and those who are not. Those who are so prepared will, when cornered, pull the cord, so cannot just be 'sat down and guarded' without danger. The reality for plod is, if you continually take chances like that eventually you will lose.
So when the police came across this â€œPoor ladâ€ visiting terrorist haunts they obviously did a radio check and found he didnâ€™t exist on paper, so they followed him, He looked like a terrorist, he acted like a terrorist, so he was challenged, NOW HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED AND PUT HIS HANDS IN THE AIR, but he didnâ€™t, he ran, after that the pursuing plods had no other choice but to take him out, quick.