Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears

Karma

War Hero
A senior police officer has said he fears the spread of CCTV cameras is leading to "an Orwellian situation".

BBC Article

He's got a point, where is the requirement and where's the assurance the information collected is used appropriately?
 

Darkershadeofblu

Lantern Swinger
The argument will always be that if you're up to no good you deserve to be caught. But as for appropriate use, I'm not convinced that the normal, innocent man in the street is protected at all.
 

Six_and_a_Half

Lantern Swinger
I'm a bit confused as to how the innocent man in the street can be abused by CCTV footage. I mean, being caught on camera popping into the shops is hardly a violation of your human rights, is it?
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
I agree with you Peter; an innocent man has nothing to fear ... for now.

I remember reading something else on this subject recently (can't remember where) but it included a statistic which suggested that Britain had the lions share of the world's CCTV cameras. I think we accounted for about a quarter of all the cameras in public areas in the world. Pretty certain I didn't dream it. :?

What does concern me is where will it end? I think that's the real issue and the one that campaigners against them are trying to highlight. Do we end up with them on every street?, inside every building? and perhaps, eventually in our homes? You will be forgiven for laughing at the prospect as sheer science fiction but how much science fiction has since become science fact over the years? ... and lets not forget that we're already seeing various areas trialing speaking cameras ie: designed to catch litter louts and bark at them to pick up over the speaker system.

It doesn't really take a huge leap of the imagination to believe that full CCTV coverage which is able to give instructions, record crimes and issue penalties is not that far away.

... and before anyone asks, no I haven't been drinking.

SF
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
Peter said:
I'm a bit confused as to how the innocent man in the street can be abused by CCTV footage. I mean, being caught on camera popping into the shops is hardly a violation of your human rights, is it?

It's a good point and as Silverfox points out, if you are doing nothing wrong what's to fear? But, when the installation of CCTV camera's is used to justify removing coppers from the beat to be replaced by an old bloke in an operating room you have to start asking why! Money?

I think the main concern in all of this is simple, many people feel they are losing the ability to live their own lives in the way they want to live them, we are losing our privacy and that's probably as much the fault of our technological age as anything else. When the nanny state begins to tell you where and how to live is the time to worry......... oops too late!
 

Karma

War Hero
Peter said:
I'm a bit confused as to how the innocent man in the street can be abused by CCTV footage. I mean, being caught on camera popping into the shops is hardly a violation of your human rights, is it?

Depends what use it's put to, in isolation individual records are of little value, however once aggregated they become extremely useful.

Of course one could argue that we have nothing to fear from the government, that fine upstanding body of people in parliament whose own interests are clearly subordinated to the benefit of society.

According to the Data Protection Act, any record associated with us should be accurate and clearly attributable, as well as be held only for a legitimate business need and should be destroyed once that legitimate business need has passed. We can't get the implementation of the DPA right in the RN, and I don't imagine that it's much better elsewhere in government, never mind the private sector.

Information about the individual should also be appropriately protected, if it's recorded and stored it's vulnerable to theft.

The latter is probably the greater threat, it's very cheap to buy a civil servant.
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
This would be the same upstanding bunch who were prepared to sell our personal information to the highest civilian bidder so we can be buried in junk mail, annoying sales-people and probably a whole host of nasty individuals who could abuse it.

SF
 
The real problem with CCTV is that it has the well documented effect of displacing crime to other, unmonitored, areas. The potential wrong in widespread CCTV is on the grounds of invasion of privacy in the first instance, and in the second, the potential for misuse by the authorities. It is the latter in particular that should concern people. Suppose a local authority in the future gets taken over by the fascists/communists/religious fundamentalists (eg the BNP). Think of the mischief it could be used for. For example my local council has three Conservative Christian fundamentalists serving in influential positions and a number of other evangelical Christians in the same political party! They are growing in number. If their number increases beyond a critical point it is reasonable given the opinions openly expressed by some of them in our local paper, that they might be tempted to use CCTV for social (ie theopolitical) monitoring and control. Indeed my local council are an excellent example why more people need to be encouraged to vote rather than being passive then moaning afterwards.
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
Karma said:
Of course one could argue that we have nothing to fear from the government, that fine upstanding body of people in parliament whose own interests are clearly subordinated to the benefit of society.
:lol: :p
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
The issue of using our vote is an important one. I always make a point of doing so (apart from the most recent local elections because the feckers didn't send my papers out and couldn't give a reasonable explaination for it).

sadly our record for abysmal turnout's on polling dats is so ingrained that it is getting ever more difficult to change the habit. I get really annoyed when I have to listen to people moan about the state of this or that and they can't be bothered to use their vote, or in many cases, even register for it in the first place.

Noe before anyone accuses me of being a BNP supporter or worse I will confirm that I am very definately not, but I can't help but wonder how long it will be before the reducing number of home grown voters plus factored with the increasing number of immigrant & newly registered voters change the tide of politics, etc in this country right in front of us. This apathy might one day result in non-Britons deciding who rules us all. 8O

SF
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
The standard argument about cameras and the survielance society is 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear'.

The people who spout that line should study a little 20th Century history, that was the same line Hitler used when he was establishing his police state…

gestapo2.jpg

“Papiere, Bitte?"
 

slim

War Hero
Surveillance camera's both intrude and protect.
The question is:
Are the benefits camera's outweigh the privacy concerns?
 

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