Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Nicks, Nov 19, 2007.
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Just seen this on the ARRSE Forum.
The problem happens especially with uniform officers who often remain at one Station where they were first posted for all their career only moving on Promotion or to a specialized branch.
The solution of course is to move staff every 3 or four years, as they do with CID Officers in London, which solves the manning problem in trouble spots, Mosside, Brixton, Hackney, Tower Hamlets etc.
Against this of course is the loss of local knowledge gained over years, in Forces which cover large areas Officers being posted a Station miles away from the house they have purchase, the setting up of punishment Police Stations by Management where a Officers has committed no Discipline Offence but has made himself unpopular is posted. It was not unknown in London to move an Officer from Staines to Romford on the far side of London just to annoy him and try and get him to resign.
Danger Money No. Arduous Duties Payment Yes. Same thing by another name.
A bit like the Maidstone in the 60's then.
One of my brothers is a police officer, and has for all his career worked in the town in which he lives.
Fine he has gained local knowledge, for what that is worth. But, and it is a big but, it has all but crippled his social life and very much reduced his circle of aquaintances.
He cannot nip down to the local for a pint and when he walks around the town he is seen by those who appreciate, and also those who loathe, what he does.
On my last visit one of the local ner do wells stood right in front of our car and gave him the finger, in the middle of the High st.
I reckon it has taken a toll on him as he brings his work home, he can hardly avoid it as it is on his doorstep. It has certainly not done him any favours.
A friend in the same job who lives in Brighton but works in London does not have this problem, and manages to leave his occupation firmly where it belongs.
Used to have a Traffic Cop living in my street --genuine guy I got on Ok with him probably cos I was in the mob at the time.
Borrowed a guys car one afternoon to come home -the boat was delayed sailing 24 hours --at midnight to go back couldn't work out how to switch the car lights on!! I got him just as he was going on shift to show me !!
No problem but he was chalk and cheese--- in uniform he was a changed guy .
They are brainwashed into upholding ''the law'' right and wrong.
In Scotland you have to have two policemen as a patrol whereas in England its one - maybe thats why they aren't liked .
I am not sure who you mean is disliked by your last two lines. Scottish law is different to that of England and Wales and requires corroboration of an officers evidence therefore they waste manpower and coverage by having to go about in pairs. This also leads to the Officers talking to each other and not the public a phenomena that it happening with two man foot patrols in London.
You also have the same accusation leveled at you as Football Referees, do you use common sense or do you follow the letter of the law when making a decision. The use of common sense allows both the Management, accused and victim if only the public to accuse you of getting it wrong or bias. That makes the easy way out for an Officer is just follow the letter of the law. Even more so in this day an age when every telephone call, conversation has to be noted down , jotted notes, bit of record on a PC etc you make, is now available to all and sundry under the discloser rules.
THANK FECK I AM OUT OF IT.
The more you pay separate officers different amounts of money, the more divisive things become. The national Special Priority Payment (SPP) scheme is already divisive and the sooner it is scrapped the better.
Many years ago, before mine and probably Nutty's time, cops were paid different amounts for different roles, then there was a mass review of pay and it was agreed and decided that it would be awarded on length of service and rank. ALL WAS WELL UNTIL LABOUR CAME TO POWER ! They introduced SPPs to divide and conquer .
Should 9-5 Monday-Friday Office workers (cops) get the same pay as shift workers on the front line, that's another question altogether.
Tuesday morning rant out!
The Job cries out for rotation of duties, Office/Shift/CID/Traffic/Mounted, with exemption for the sick and lame caused by Police work who should still be looked after, if you are to have standard pay across the board.
Against this stands all the normal reasons that come into play for you to have a 9 to 5 office job or be a shift PC in Mosside. Who are you married/related to, do you play Golf, are you a Mason, where do you live, loss of knowledge/contacts/experience, cost of re-training the list/excuses are endless.
In my day, Metropolitan Police Officers were required to live within 25 miles of Charring Cross. Now with free travel on British Rail I knew of one Officer who lived in Northhampton
Surely though Nutty it is correct that everything is recorded and available.
When a member of the public is arrested all they say and do is recorded in minute detail, their lives thoroughly investigated.
Isn't it right that those doing the arresting should also be set the same standard.
IMHO the image of the police has been downgraded in the eyes of some of the public by the amount of 'automatic' policing in the UK; speed cameras, cctv etc..
You are probably much better out of it and I wish my brother would see the light.
Differential pay rates how ever contrived always have a tendency to be divisive unless they are carefully planned and operated fairly. All to often schemes end up actually paying out on a lottery basis, right place right time bonus, but too many miss out for reasons which are no fault of their own.
If officers have a reasonable level of freedom in where they serve then a bonus for 'undesirable' stations may be seen as fair as every one has a choice of whether to serve there, I suspect though that in most cases this does not really work.
As for the same rates for 9-4 and shift work most commercial operations deal with this through a 'shift allowance' which is generally accepted as fair. Of course having a national scale itself creates unfairness, a plod with a quiet rural location often has a far easier life than some one in a city area.
If you guys are encouraging folk to leave policing... who is going to be one at the end of the day.... Anarchy
I respect the police for the job they do. Being in the middle of squabbles, fights/riots and at the thin end when it comes to snap decisions. All police do a great job that deserves more respect than it gets. Times change, views change - unfortunately rights of the scum on the streets has changed in their favour.
I personally would allow police to tazer anybody who is acting like a scroat and allow the guilty no rights - other than a fair trial!
Could always bring back the stocks so that the scum can be publically ridiculed and tormented -nothing wrong with a bit of payback!
Also who is the first one the scum go to when they get robbed/wronged??? The police!
Maybe I am in the minority these days, but I respect your decisions to leave as well.
The Police only have access to the information THEY can obtain. The accused have a right of access to all information known both by the Prosecution and Defence. Only if a Judge rules, and often they do not, that the information should be withheld from the defence. Many cases are dropped when the judge insists that the Police reveal the source of information of the location of an observation point because to do so would endanger the civilians involved.
Basically you are saying if we go to war with Russia we should tell them exactly what we are doing and the capability of our kit. They have to tell us nothing. Now I do not think that is what you mean but you have not considered the problem from both sides of the fence.
You said, "When a member of the public is arrested all they say and do is recorded in minute detail, their lives thoroughly investigated"
1. What both the Police and the prisoner say in public is recorded and made available. What the suspect says in private to Friends, family, Solicitor is not made public. What the Police say in private is.
2. Unless its some serious offence I doubt if the suspects life is throughly investigated at all.
NUTTY, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying , but you and I both know the reality of what happens - but it doesn't necessarily make it either right or fair.
MAXI - you too raise some good points but don't under-estimate rural policing. Whilst I appreciate Policing can be a really difficult job in places like Brixton, Mosside etc, there are far more officers available to deal with situations and back you up. In a rural nick, you are quite often the only bobby on duty all day with your nearest back up being anywhere between 10 & 20 miles away - when you're sweed it about to be kicked in, you don't get half the met to back you up within 2 minutes.
If I wasn't trapped by my pension scheme, I would give serious consideration to leaving unless things drastically improve, which they are unlikely to do whatever government are in power.
I think the saying you lot use is ROMFT!
Fair points and I understand whay you are saying.
However I have to say that when I come to the UK I am saddened by the amount of what I call 'automatic' policing, the speed cameras and cctv I mentioned. Also, the usually poorly uniformed community police; what on earth are they? The poor things must be so vulnerable and their powers, well what are they? Who knows?
Not your business to answer these questions of course but I think they are fair ones.
Good for you that you are out of it and I shall keep chipping away at my brother to take the jump into the unknown.
With luck and the French strikes permitting I too will be heading south (again!)
I really must do something about my carbon footprint :wink:
I agree the rural policing can have it's down side, and is not every ones cup of tea but it does illustrate the problems raised by national pay grades.
As for the pension scheme there are many who would like to be trapped in a scheme with that level of generosity
"That level of generosity" to which you refer - I'm guessing you mean the 11% of my salary I have to give up every month to get it is it?
The MDP are different, theirs is, I believe, free of contributions
I am 1000% in agreement with you about Community Police Officer and Automated traffic policing and the removal of traffic patols wich have been passed over in part to HighWay Agency Patrols.
I recently drove in a 48 hour time span from Brighton to Kilcreggan near Faslane, Kilcreggan to Glasgow and then Glasgow to Kilcreggan in the day time. How many marked Police vehicles did I see both on the Motorways and City.
Police here in Spain are still very visible and active. Even in my rual backwater I will see Civil Guarda Traffic Police every day.
If I had had the opportunity to pay 11% for what is on offer I would have signed up a long time ago and been like Nutty sunning myself in the Med, but it was not on offer for me and t5hus I an still slaving away.
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