Piracy and American Intervention

#21
shoot the Fecking lot of them, its ALL they understand, Its that easy and simple.

Put a rotating group of "protection" on the ships as they pass thru the area with a simple proviso. Come any closer and we will shoot you!
 
#22
Catch them and amputate a leg each......THEN they can call themselves proper pirates.....then the parrot seller gets a break

Seriously, full lethal force, no ifs or buts
 
#23
Jimmy_Green said:
Pete_N, do you think that as hostages get released a big suitcase with millions of dollars in it gets handed over? These pirates are well organised groups not a few opportunist individuals. I'm betting any ransom will be wire transferred to a bank account somewhere and then laundered.
Yes I am aware that pirates do not operate spontaneously without proper planning, and yes I am sure in many cases money is wire transferred, but I draw your attention to the saga involving the Sirius Star a few months ago. If you recall, the ransom money was parachuted onto the deck of the oil tanker in a bright orange container. Granted, the money did not arrive in a suitcase, but it didn't arrive via an untraceable wire transfer either.
 
#24
flymo said:
I'm very surprised no human rights lawyer hasn't jumped on the band wagon hear banging on about "shoot to kill policy" etc ad nauseum
The only shoot to kill policy appears to be the French, who whilst a signatory to the ECHR, abide by it more in the breech than the observance. Like their responsibilities to the EU - fisherman's blockade anyone? And the Americans who don't have anything resembling the ECHR/HRA - Gitmo anyone??

Edited for not knowing how to spell the European Convention of Human Rights. Doh!
 
#25
rosinacarley said:
flymo said:
I'm very surprised no human rights lawyer hasn't jumped on the band wagon hear banging on about "shoot to kill policy" etc ad nauseum
The only shoot to kill policy appears to be the French, who whilst a signatory to the ECHR, abide by it more in the breech than the observance. Like their responsibilities to the EU - fisherman's blockade anyone? And the Americans who don't have anything resembling the ENCR/HRA - Gitmo anyone??
Wow
I agree with the french on something, thats a first for me.
 

TheRowan

Lantern Swinger
#26
How about providing protection/rescue, but only for british-flagged ships? It'd reduce the number of ships we'd need to protect, and simultaneously provide a disincentive for shipping companies to register their ships somewhere ludicrous to save on costs (Yes, Monrovia, I'm looking at you!)
 
#27
Pete_N said:
If you recall, the ransom money was parachuted onto the deck of the oil tanker in a bright orange container. Granted, the money did not arrive in a suitcase, but it didn't arrive via an untraceable wire transfer either.
I wasn't aware that the ransom money was delivered by such means but then again, if we've thought about planting tracking devices I'm sure that the pirate's planners would have considered it and would more than likely employ methods to ensure that they are ineffective, even if it's as simple as transferring the bonds/cash or whatever the means of payment itself into their own containers, whether they be suitcases, Pusser's grips or Tesco carrier bags. Planting tracking devices may well be worth trying in the off chance that they get lucky but I still think that more robust methods should be employed.

aberdeenlad said:
rosinacarley said:
flymo said:
I'm very surprised no human rights lawyer hasn't jumped on the band wagon hear banging on about "shoot to kill policy" etc ad nauseum
The only shoot to kill policy appears to be the French, who whilst a signatory to the ECHR, abide by it more in the breech than the observance. Like their responsibilities to the EU - fisherman's blockade anyone? And the Americans who don't have anything resembling the ENCR/HRA - Gitmo anyone??
Wow
I agree with the french on something, thats a first for me.
Cheese-eating surrender monkey piss-taking comments aside, besides the spams, the French are one of the few other countries to actually do something when it comes to issues like this. The frogs do tend to take a more direct approach to sorting things out whereas we tend to stand there wringing our hands and bleating about ooman rights, and rules & regulations. You can see this whenever we get shafted by the government we just accept it, when the French fishermen feel they're getting shafted they blockade the channel ports. Their lorry drivers, farmers, ferry workers, airport workers etc are just as effective at putting their government under pressure.
 
#28
Do as the Germans did in WW2 - go to a village, pick out half a dozen villagers and shoot them. There could be an incentive offered, if the money is handed back then only 3 get shot.
 
#29
In my (most definitely not valuable) opinion, perhaps all this Pirate merlarkey will cause the government to pull its finger out and provide some much needed funding to the Royal Navy.

Britain was once once at the forefront of Pirate prevention and eradication, lets show em how its done!
For once I admire the Americans (though it feels like I'm ramming a knife slowly into my own stomach) for giving those slanderers what fore!
 
#30
the british were ONCE good towards the piracy act and did hang them years back... but now its gone all ooman rights and is very petty in it all, these pirates show no mercy so why should we?
 
#31
mattbea said:
the british were ONCE good towards the piracy act and did hang them years back... but now its gone all ooman rights and is very petty in it all, these pirates show no mercy so why should we?
If you'd bother to read the previous threads and followed some of the links provided you will find that the pirates have a good track record in treating their hostages well. It is against their interests to harm the hostages as they need the compliance of the company owners to pay their ransom. The companies cooperate because they know the sailors will not be harmed and the ransom is covered by insurance.
 
#32
Mate, that is too obvious but the point in taking hostages is still traumatising, true? YES... so weather or not they are nice to hostages is one thing, they shouldnt do it!!!!
I feel shame for the woman who recently got taken hostage nr thailand or wherever and was stripped and taken underboard, hope she did not get raped but these vietnamese tend to have a thing for blonde white women, what if they won the next war and took our country over due to the human rights bollox? we would be screwed and will see our own mums, wifes and daughters screwed until we die!!! not very fun clever bollox!!
 
#33
mattbea said:
taking hostages is still traumatising, true? YES... so weather or not they are nice to hostages is one thing, they shouldnt do it!!!!
I agree that being taken hostage would be traumatic and it shouldn't be done, and in previous posts I've said that we should be prepared to use lethal force. I was, however, responding to your statement where you say that the pirates show no mercy which is factually incorrect. BTW, it's 'whether', not 'weather'.

mattbea said:
I feel shame for the woman who recently got taken hostage nr thailand or wherever and was stripped and taken underboard, hope she did not get raped but these vietnamese tend to have a thing for blonde white women, what if they won the next war and took our country over due to the human rights bollox? we would be screwed and will see our own mums, wifes and daughters screwed until we die!!! not very fun clever bollox!!
WTF has this got to do with Somalian pirates? Here you are just having a rant and talking shite.
 
#34
I appreciate the feelings being directed to the fact that the pirates let the hostages go once the ransom has been paid. However I can't help but wonder how the prospective pirates would feel if their predecessors went to sea and did'nt come back. Would that be a dis-incentive?
That could be achieved by well publicised gun battles or more disconcerting just disappearing. Why not go back to the old WWI tactic of using "Q ships" to lure them to a tasty prize. Death or long term internment. Would they be so keen then?
 
#35
Nice to see all these comments from people who have never done piracy ops or been down the GOA recently. The amount of shipping passing through this area is too large for us the RN to deal with. British flagged merchant ships, are just that, flagged in name only. What doesnt get reported is the large amount of piracy that has been detected and deterred by Northumberland/Portland/Kent and my ship Cumberland. The British government is taking this very seriously, Portland had a blank cheque prior to her piracy ops.
On our piracy ops last November, we were controlled by UKMCC Bahrain, therefore hurtling around a nature reserve sinking suspect dhows and slotting known pirates willy nilly was not an option. The GOA is rather large bit of blue, three ships cant be everywhere all the time.
The RN is doing an outstanding job out there, unreported and unassuming, we are not self promoting Yanks who shout one contact from the rafters.
What it takes is a bit of NGS on very rich pirate communities now springing up on the Somali coast. They are getting bolder and bolder, and this constant folding into ransom demands by irresponsible shipping companies is only making them more effective and better equipped.
 
#37
Some of the legal considerations are discussed on the International Maritime Organisation website.

Essentially counter piracy and armed robbery at sea is a policing activity, and governed in that context. That said, in the Horn of Africa there is little to be gained in dealing with the acts of piracy themselves, without also addressing the basing and facilities ashore, predominantly in Somalia. The sea areas covered by the afloat taskforce, even if supplemented by airborne recce assets, is too big to really have a significant impact on, whereas dealing with the problem ashore would have a major influence on capability; that requires a Land Component, working with the Somali military. and as we've found in both Iraq and Afghanistan a Land Component needs to work with civil government agencies if it is to put in place a viable alternative.

There are some fairly significant tensions, despite the effect of paying the ransom in ters of perpetuating the problem it's still more profitable for the shipping companies and insurance companies to just pay the money and get the cargo on the move again. The financial losses from these ships being out of action for more than a few days dwarfs the ransom payments. Essentially the numbers that actually get stopped by piracy is quite small compared to the total volume of traffic, although there has been a sharp rise in the last 18 months.

On the other hand the IMO are interested in generally safe transit and in the context of piracy is the protection of human life. I would infer from their own position papers that means the lives of those manning the ships.

Human rights is a nice simplistic position for people to use as an attack on progress, but it's largely irrelevant in the context of the counter piracy operations.
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#38
Sounds to me, angry-mac, that the RN is doing it's time-honoured 'Silent Service' thing, doing a good job far away at sea and not letting anyone know about it. The RN's track record of making a hash of its publicity goes back to Jutland and beyond. What is sad is that if we had better media coverage of duffing the pirates we might be less in the situation described on another thread as 'the public don't give a stuff about the RN'. Meanwhile I have a nasty suspicion (from my uninformed armchair) that our ops are hampered by 'human rights' ROE. The best cure for piracy is to shoot them dead whenever chance affords (and sink their boats); as they are not ideologically driven they might then find their way of life inexpedient.
 
#40
TheRowan said:
How about providing protection/rescue, but only for british-flagged ships? It'd reduce the number of ships we'd need to protect, and simultaneously provide a disincentive for shipping companies to register their ships somewhere ludicrous to save on costs (Yes, Monrovia, I'm looking at you!)
Yep, that would reduce costs drastically. Given the absolute paucity of GB registered ships :roll:
When I travel (regularly) between Newhaven and Dieppe I travel on a ship owned by a French line, and with the tricolour proudly flapping at the arse end. When I travel on the PandO line 'Shame of Bilbao' from Pompey (thankfully less regularly) I am treated to a ship bearing the appearance of a British ship, according to the name of the shipping line, and it has to be said, the scary nature of the punters. But, flying which flag? It seems to change.
 

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