Pension rights for rnr

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by Captain_Jacks, Dec 12, 2006.

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  1. Yes

  2. No

    0 vote(s)
  3. dont know

    0 vote(s)
  1. Is it not about time that we started to get some of the navy perks for all the work that we now do.

    The RNR is not a hobby, but a serious part time (bordering full time) for most people. Is it not about time the the navy started to look after us again.

    Give us a Pension rights (part time) Not that Cr*p stakeholder, but access to the proper Gvt pension benefits
    Give us Free medical and dental cover. They want us fighting fit so why not provide us with the full private (forces) medical and dental cover.

    What should the RN not look after us as we look after them
  2. It's the same problem across all the the reserve forces, TA, RAuxAF and RNR alike.

    The reason we currently lack entitlement to a pensions is that the government doesn't class us as part-time worker. Rather we are determined to be casual workers. May sound technical, but there are reasons in favour of this classification, namely that you don't actually have to turn up anywhere at any time.

    However, as you point out, there are those that give a great deal of time to their Reserve occupation over-and-above their minimum requirement.

    Fantastic, however it's important to remember that, from every sense bar a practical one, this doesn't have to be the case and you are not required to give 40-60 days a year. In fact, I think the legal limit for reserve occupations is 110 days a year as a reservist because after that you can no longer be classed as casual.

    In short, in principal we should be as pensionable as our regular (I'm TA, btw) counterparts, but in practice it will never happen due to the rather obscure nature of our service retention.

    Still, the spams manage it, but then they ask a lot more from their Reservists, comparatively speaking.
  3. When you are doing a full-time commitment you get medical and dental cover. When you're not, you don't. You fare better than the RFA - they never get free medical or dental (apart from when they're at sea in a Ship lucky enough to have an RN MO on board (eg ARGUS)).
  4. The trouble is that both RN, Army & RAF want and need us when they wont but will not support the reserves fully.

    Once again it is probably down to money. need to keep the funds for the MP's Christmas piss up
  5. What would you rather have - pension or bounty? My understanding is that bounty is in lieu of a pension.

    We should have acess to local doctors and dentists though - there's no dentists taking on new patients where I live. Unless I want to go private.....
  6. My dad was in the TA for 35 years! Never really saw him at weekends as a kid as he was always away. He was a doctor in civvy street, and I'm sure all you medical types will agree that the medical profession is perversely political. Because he was away playing soldiers, they, his peers, didn't think him worthy of a merit award (a substantial increase in pay and pension) because he already had a income from the TA. Yes, it was his choice and he knew that was going to happen, he dedicated himself to the TA. He was ready to go to the Falklands, one of only a handful of reservists considered, but a regular came back off leave just in time. He was dispatched to Cyprus during Gulf War I to provide casualty clearing, and volunteered for a tour in Kosovo at the start of that particular spat from where he was medically evacuated.

    He's an old school type of guy whose dedication to the reserve forces inspired me to join, first the TA (4 Para), but then I saw the light and joined the RNR. I am imensely proud of him and the sacrifices he made in his civillian life both in time spent with his young family and the amount of renumeration he subsequently received. When the law changed and allowed part time workers all the rights of full time staff I felt sure that the cronies would reward him for his years of dedication, alas not!

    I think pensions for the reserves are relevant but I can't see it happening, looking at many other threads on RR it is clear there is no money. Our political masters only want to use and abuse us, regular or reserve, and rely on our team spirit and professionalism to carry the day. We are a first-rate force and cut-rate prices but as Dicky Dannat said we are close to the limit. The time must be coming soon when we must tell the Mandarins in Whitehall that enough is enough and we're coming home until Gordon and his chums realise that you can't get comprehensive cover at third party prices!!

    Are you feeling the love?
  7. Very fair point noemis - no matter how much is taken away from us, we still crack on and "make do" with what we have. Maybe that's why we keep getting cuts - "they can manage without kit X, so they don't need it". Maybe we should stop being professional?
  8. What good is a pension these days unless you are fortunate enough to have worked all your life and paid in since day one.

    With finishing work early on health grounds and drawing the unhealthy figure of seventy quid a week plus my meagre private pension which I drew early thinking it would help out financially. I get the other half when I am sixty five if I live that long!!!

    Now I have to pay for everything from medication to well you name it.

    If I was on income support I would be entiled to gas and electric winter payment.

    Scum bags who never have paid into the system live rent free everything free.

    A loaf of bread is the same price if you are drawing a grand a week or a hundred.

    What you are given in one hand the faceless ones take away in another.

    The govt states you can live on one hundred pounds a week they are not bothered what your outgoings are. The same peole are trying to vote themselves a ginormous pay rise.

    Nothing to do with navy pension rights but I do feel better now!!!!!!!!!
  9. No!! Never stop that, that's what makes us what we are! Rather we should tell them no at the ballot box. Anybody want to join the RR party?
  10. How would the pension be worked out?
    Any full time service man or women is on call 24 hours a day seven days a week. How many days in a year do most RNR members do. Let us presume that it works out on average at one full day a week. So a reservist with 22 years service should be entitled to one seventh of the pension earned by his equivalent RN counterpart.
    I for one can see no reason why this could not be carried out. A friend of mine who spent 27 years in the TA as a Para (I'll wash my mouth out later) and eventually became an RSM gets nothing. Bit unfair if you ask me.
  11. Don't care about a pension. Give me a bigger bounty any day.
  12. bounty or pension. 8)

    give me the pension. If you cannot work at least you are getting recognised for the work that you have done.

    I have just about done 20 years RN / RNR service, not for the money, but as many others state for the team, the crack, the support the help of others. :lol:

    RN on call 7 days a week, i had more time off when i was full time than i ever have done since leaving the mob. yes you do sea time, but it was great for saving money and you always got a good run ashore somewhere. :p

    It was not a bad life at the time. We in the RNR give the support to the guys in full time and we do work longer and harder than most RN, taking both jobs into consideration.

    So why not give us a small scrap
  13. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    I think you guys do deserve a pension of some sort, but I can see huge issues with calculating it and I suspect it would require an abatement of your bounty and pay. One big problem, how can you possibly think such a thing would ever happen? As long as the regular armed forces are short of manpower, with shortfalls in recruiting and increases in PVR, you reserves will be called upon to fill billets at an ever increasing rate and probably offered FTRS at an equally increasing rate.

    This serves to mask a problem in the regulars so no improvement in our terms and conditions= no incentive for the supermarket stackers to join, why should they leave home to earn less money?

    If the Armed Forces can be run with good people giving up their own time to earn little pay and no pension you have to ask yourself why it will continue? Oh yes, it's obviously the most efficient way to run a defence force but an expeditionary force- I think not!

    Not having a go at you reserve types, you do a good job and I sometimes wonder what we would do without you.
  14. Don't see why we shouldn't? Perhaps if you do X amount of years service you should be eligible for a Navy Pension, ok not the full one those in the Navy get but one that is in proportion with being a Reservist? Maybe a means tested system based on how much ORT you have given over the years?
  15. I understand that FTRS is now considered an expensive luxury and quite a few are not going to be re-engaged. Ex-regular in our unit who has been FTRS, since leaving after 22 years, is looking at rejoining as a regular as FTRS billets have been scaled back!
  16. FTRS is different as they do get full rights as regulars including pension.

    FTRS is only available if the navy need the job not if you want the job.

    The main issue is all the other guys who do a lot of time masking the navy problems without any help or support :?
  17. FTRS don't get all the same rights as regulars, you don't get RILOR, help with education for your kids, help with a mortgage etc.
  18. I dont see the difficulty personally, everyone assumes that in order to have a pension you must make rigid and constant contributions, not the case. A simple company based stakeholder scheme which has no minumum contribution and and no fixed payment schedule would do the job.

    All that is required is that a % contribution is determined. This contribution could be paid at the end of the tax year as a lump sum to the fund by either MOD, MOD and reservist (i.e. additional contributions) . Based on the annual income as stated in your P60 the inconsistent nature of our pay each month would not be an issue.

    However this would need money to fund it from central we all know thats like rocking horse shit!!
  19. we certainly should have a pension. with regard to how it is funded, it's my understanding full timers do not have a deduction from their pay, for a pension. neither should we. as for bounty being in lue of pension- horseshit. bounty is a retainer. pure and simple. see other threads regarding "golden hello's/handcuff's" for edification.
  20. Financially, the bounty over the pension is a complete no brainer.

    Let me let you onto a little secret....:

    1) this is what your bounty is for. It would go/be severley curtailed if we had a pension.
    2) your bounty is paid tax free.
    3) working on a nice round figure of £1,000 bounty, this means you have been paid effectively +22% (basic rate taxpayer) = £1,136.36, or +40% (higher rate taxpayer) = £1,666,67.
    4) Looking at it another way, your £1,000 bounty, if taxable, would result in £880 or £600 in your pocket, depending on whether a higher rate tax payer or not. Not £1,000. I'm discounting NI for simplicity.
    5) Pension contributions are taxen from gross income (i.e you get your tax back), so had it been taxable but paid into a pension, you would have only £1,000 paid in, in total.
    6) Nothing's stopping you putting that money into a personal pension anyway. WHERE THE GOVERNMENT WILL GIVE YOU A FURTHER 22%/40% BACK DEPENDING ON YOUR NON-SERVICE TAXABLE SALARY!!!
    In other words, £1,136.36, or £1,666,67 will effectively go into a pension due to the additional tax rebate reclaimed.
    7) As a proportion of a roughly £1,800 salary, (rough calculation of £75/day x 24 days), I'd say that's fairly generous of HMG, and is damn sight more than you'd get if you got a pension but no bounty!

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