pc and bullying

I dont really know where to put this one,it seems when you look at a lot of pages(not the funnies and the banter)but there seems to be in the modern navy a lot of bullying,hand on heart, ive never seen any,wait a minute tho, is not name calling a sort of bullying?then i was abully and was well and truly bullied too.Some people seem to think that us oldies were never at sea with ethnic minorities,what aload of crap that is,and the same people seem to think that being pc is the bees knees,as ye sow ,so shall ye reap.I imagine that now with a messdeck of english welsh scots irish and OTHER ethnic minorities,it would be frowned upon to come out with ,you welsh pratt for example,my god you would never get to sea for litigation,and oh yes its going to come which reminds me of the day i accidentaly knocked over my mates tot, with great sadness in his eyes,he looked at me,and in his gentle irish brogue,said to me affectionally,You sheep shaggin,kilt swingin,sporran spinnin,caber tossin,bagpipe blowin,haggis yafflin,porrige yompin,heather pickin,thistle arsed scots bastard,do you think today that i could sue?.

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Lil's would of been a good start!

Depends how 'out of contexted' you take bullying. Sticks and stones...........................
Things have got out of hand these days. If you were a Jock and joined the mob you normally got caled Jock, and if you made the fatal mistake of saying "I don't like that name" oops!!
Now little cry babies will scream bullying at the slightest name calling or labeling. No we shouldn't be throwing people a beating onboard (unless thieving or similar is involved), but a smack of the dish is not always a bad thing. Is it ok to kick the sh"t out of someone for humiliation? No! Is a dig in the guts ok when some gobby junior thinks because he is physicaly bigger than you doesn't have to obey rules? Of course.
The real worry would be someone who blubs at a clip round the ear or a nickname going to war with you, puts it into perspective.
Fighting force, warriors, defenders......
No place for cry babies, never has been, never will be.


Book Reviewer
You sheep shaggin,kilt swingin,sporran spinnin,caber tossin,bagpipe blowin,haggis yafflin,porrige yompin,heather pickin,thistle arsed scots bastard,do you think today that i could sue?.

What for?
Nice one janner,now that i have it in writing,hope you are still serving and stinking rich.

If we cant laugh at ourselves,who the hell can we laugh at these days?

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Lingyai said:
(after many words of ferocious bravery and rabble-rousing shite...No place for cry babies, never has been, never will be.

So, why are you not still in the mob, and campaigning for the old 'one in the guts' to the gobby sprogs, then? Serious question. Was it that the winds of change proved to much for a hardy old salt like you? Did you stick in your notice because 'it's not the same any more', or 'it's lost all it's fun-factor'.

Or was it other reasons? Come on. I'm intrigued. You're not shy about giving us your opinion about everything else. Just why did you leave the mob?

It wasn't the loss of the fun factor, because that never really disappeared, fun can be made out of anything as long as you have a sense of humour and don't take life too seriously.
As for the mob not being what it used to be, that is definite. The life on my last ship was good, the lads in my section were the best of the best, I led by example and although we weren't against the odd scudding to enforce a point, it was rarely required. I never once had to tell my boys how to be the best turned out and positively motivated onboard, but they were, they did as I did and conducted themselves in the same way. They were smart, technicaly adept and respectful, but then we were a small unit out of the "mainstream" navy and had the freedom to train as we saw fit with more authority per rank than is allowed normaly.
Towards the end of my career I came full circle and became an Instructor (which I surprisingly enjoyed), and the joy I got from the interest of sutdents who really wanted to be a part of the team and learn something was amazing. No, I did not teach in an "orthodox" manner and it certainly was outside the politicaly correct arena, but my results spoke for themselves and it was a great success ( I would surely have been binned by some of the Dartmouth schooly types if they had their way, but my results were always better than theirs because A I knew what I was teaching and about real life on ships and what the kids needed to know and B Having a bad ass warrant on your side who prefered results to politics was nice (shame they are a dying breed).
Unfortunately, the motivated interested students were no more than 25% at best Fact, and that just isn;t good enough, I was even ordered to pass certain categories of student (for numbers) which I refused to do, but of course they couldn't take that one as far as I was prepared to.
It soon became apparent that we were getting too few people in the mob that were going to make the grade, not what we needed at all. Also with the way the fleet was going, there was the looming threat of having to serve on Pompey 42s and not much else. Having gone outside mainstream navy for so many years and having so much responsibilty, going back to warship mentality was gonna be bad. By the way, working with the Royals really is a breath of fresh air, and I would recommend it, they actualy treat you like an adult. I spent a couple of months on the sausage prior to leaving and it was as I feared. So, I took my own advice to all those fat whiners who sit around staff rooms and canteens complaining about the mob, if you don't like it , leave.
I did everything I wanted to in the mob, acheived more than I thought possible, loved it and it set me up for a life and a dream job that I never could have hoped to have without my military experience.
Lucky for me I got out "just" before it got too bad and before I got too bitter. Some of my comrades who are on extended service for purely financial reasons tell me they wish they could say the same.

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Lingyai said:
...some honesty for a change...

Fair enough. I'm not going to criticise you for doing what you thought was best for you at the time. To me, it seems that you had problems adapting to the changes, but that is just opinion, and not, as you keep saying, a fact. For myself, I have seen gigantic change, and most of it distateful. The OM brach fiasco was one such that it almost destroyed a large chunk of the navy, just for a whim of some high-end desk pilot who obviously under-estimated the raw power of the request-form. Voluntary redundancy also caused a ******* huge manpower defecit, one of which we carry through many branches to this day. My beef is that no-one's head appeared on a stick for it; if I make a **** up that costs money and people's careers I expect to lose pay and gratuity for it, No-one's head rolled for either. See also soon: Pay 2000.

But your point about change is made invalid by the fact that if we didn't instigate change, if we didn't look seriously how we run warships in the dawn of the next technological revolution, we'd still be steaming Leanders back and forward to Gib and sending carrier task groups into the Atlantic to 'show strength'. Strength against what? The 'old navy' as we see it and in many ways loved was built to thwart the Baltic and Northern Red Banner fleets from dominating the North Atlantic and cutting off American supplies from Europe. Where are they now? It's all too sentimantal to hang onto old ways just because they were a 'great laugh' and sat you in a predicatble groove from Part One until Pension. You are better off out, to be honest, because I'd wager since you left there have been more developments (and I'd say that the legalisation of homosexuality wouldn't auger well with your opinions and 'facts' either) but to be honest, as a married, straight bloke with no idea what gay people look like or do, I've yet to have my arse felt, in the way that the doom mongers predicted we'd all get when the gay balloon went up. Women at sea = trouble...so they said. Any more trouble than a messdeck full of jack on a channel night after a STANAFORLANT? Any more trouble than jack can be when he's had just a bit too much to drink and wants to take on all comers? Yeah, females have changed the atmosphere, but then again, so did gas turbines and the first guided missile destroyers. But 'pink and fluffy' is only that if you allow it to be that, and outside in civilian life, I'd say it was to the multiple of many times worse.

Your drips about training, I can empathise, but not sympathise with. I have spent ten years teaching in and out of various training establishments, both as an instructor and in training design and development. I have never felt the need to bend rules to pass people, if they don't make the grade, they fail. If they continually fail, then the teaching methods need re-examining and if they are sound, then the entry-level criteria needs examining. No-one needs 'doffing', no-one needs 'rebriefing'. If you aint good enough and can't respond to remedial instruction, you're out.

If you've found a niche in life, good luck to you. I will say, however, just because the navy rattled you out of your comfort zone and now you are free, unless you have salient 'facts' as such, expect the shit to come fast and free if you are outside, looking in, and tackle contentious issues with a frankly idiotic outlook. Whining about bygone years gets this organisation nowhere. I hear it every, single, ******* day in my own environment and I wonder why people get up in the morning if it is that bad. I remember the old navy and how good it was. I cannot deny that. Don't get me wrong. I am definately not a 'yes' man. I question most things I don't see as right, but I do have the intelligence to research the 'facts' and present them as an argument. These days it gets me a lot done.

I agree with you about the OM fiasco, that was a disgrace, I hear that they are at last back peddling on that one. The points you make about change are not what I was talking about at all, operational requirements etc. are inevitable and I never question that, the kinds of change I was talking about were in regards to the restrictions placed on those in command of others, most subordinates respond to authority out of respect, but you are always going to have those who need a little extra motivation and no matter how much you harp on about it being "old navy" there are times when it is the only option. You cannot tell me it doesn't work because I have seen and experienced it, it might not fit in with the modern train of thought but there is still a place for it.
You are also wrong about my view on queers in the navy 8O , I never thought it would be a problem to legalise it becuase they have always been there and no matter if you legalise it, "most" of them will not come out anyway. Why? We all know the answer to that and know that it is "old navy" tactics that would sort that one out if a couple of blokes were "at it" in the mess. Not modern thought, not very tasteful, but have no doubt that will be the outcome.
About me being better off out, well of course, thanks for stating the obvious, I did my time, served my country, got my gongs and did everything I wanted to in the Mob and got all I wanted out of it. Then I made the move because to be frank, the mob no longer held a challenge, once you have done most things it then becomes repetetive and boring. My biggest regret is that the Navy does not keep up with modern technology, the fact that you can be using sub standard old equipment and therefore not producing the best results is a disgrace.( I know that in some areas there is modern tech, but not nearly enough) Being in civvy street has been an eye opener as well, when you see what is truly available in marine securtiy systems and sonars, it is a crying shame that the navy is not using them. There is so much available out here and it works, OK it may be a little advanced for the average OM but not really above the level of most Technicians.
The snipe of yours about being rattled out of the comfort zone could apply to those who just can't leave the mob for fear of the big bad world and that maybe they will have to survive on their own skills and intelligence instead of hiding behind the comfort barrier that the rank provides. You only have to look at a lot of the extended service ranks who are still hanging on because either they don't have the relevant skills to offer civy street, or they just fear life outside (understandably).
I agree with your training comments (80%) and you may not have bent the rules to get people through, but unfortunately that is not always the case, contacts in Fareham still (as of yesterday) say that it is happening.
There is it, a little of both, I feel that a good scudding has it's place (old navy) and also it would be nice if the mob caught up a little with modern technology (new navy).
janner said:
You sheep shaggin,kilt swingin,sporran spinnin,caber tossin,bagpipe blowin,haggis yafflin,porrige yompin,heather pickin,thistle arsed scots bastard,do you think today that i could sue?.

What for?


The version I knew and still use on occassion's when a "PJ" (Poxy Jock) upsets me is:

"Here they come with pipes a skirling, Claymore waving,
sheep shaggin, kilt swingin, sporran spinnin,caber tossin,bagpipe blowin, haggis yafflin, porrige yompin, heather pickin, thistle arsed scots bastard dooooooon fra the Glen"

Must be a boats thing.