Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by trehorn, Apr 23, 2012.

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  1. A thought was put to me this weekend regarding PAYD.

    If my full time employer sends me working away he pays for my food.

    So is it wrong that the RN send me training to the corners of the UK and expect me to pay for my meals?

    Never really thought of it on those terms before and have never had a problem but when you think of it like that he may have a point.

    Don't get me wrong here, I'm all for the phrase "life in a blue one" etc and realise that the military do things differently etc etc, but i pay 40% tax on ALL of my RNR earnings so when you start taking off another few quid it starts making the reserve forces a little less attractive, especially for those lower in the food chain.
  2. When your away training though, don't you have free accom, as your on a service establishment? I know your civvy employer would pay for your accom so maybe a non-argument.
  3. We don't tend to pay for accom on weekends but then again, you should see the state of some of it! If we're on base for any length of time we do pay unless we have proof of another residence.

    Not sure why that would make it a non-argument though? Can you imagine the recruitment stats if they charged us for accom too?
  4. My experience, and the experiences of many of the people I know is that if you're sent working somewhere away from your usual place of work then you are allowed a reasonable allowance for a meal. Some firms ask for a receipt, some provide you with an allowance per day.

    I've just read my initial post back and it reads like i'm a right money grabbing twunt but I can assure you that isn't the case. The main point being that i'm heavily involved in recruitment and obviously questions get raised about these things and this one did strike a bit of a chord. Exactly the same argument could be said of regulars who are sent on course away from their regular unit.
  5. SJ, once you are outside, IMHO if you get a job that involves any work related travelling you'll find that your employer WILL pay for food and accom. Good hotels and/or subbies and a fairly generous meal allowance, but easily made 'more flexible' by bar staff and ex matelots! Happy days.

    Just like being back on boats really!!
  6. The OP makes a good point. I work in a PAYD establishment but live out; when I go away (quite regularly) on Detached Duty to Drake/ Clyde I have to pay for all my meals. If I go to a location without Service Messing i.e. Bristol/Barrow then I can claim subsistence.
  7. TH, you make a good point, and those who have read most of your posts will know that you are not dripping like a septic tank, just pointing something out.

    My employer has a very simple rule, you can bring sarnies in to eat for lunch, and they will provide the fridge, but if I have to work on a customer's site (for less than 18 months) you can claim a reasonable lunch on the firm. And if you have to stay at work beyond a reasonable time in the evening, they will also pay. This obviously includes all evening meals when away from home. (I've lost count of the times I've asked bar staff for a receipt that just says "food"!).

    It would be interesting to put in a representation, based on the grounds that we do not have the facilities to make our own lunch, and store it in service-provided fridge. And have no ability to make our own evening meal! (I'm sure it must have been done, as this is a valid gripe for regulars as well as reservists?)
  8. But I thought this was about PAYD, which suggests that there is a very inexpensive 'canteen'available.

    I understand that you don't want to pay, after all why shouldn't you have free meals for no apparent reason? Hope you don't mind if I object a little though, because if you don't pay my taxes will.
  9. If you are in an PAYD establishment you are not 'away', you are doing your routine job. Be it as a Reservist at weekends, or a Regular. We receive the X factor to compensate for the fact that we do not work similar routines to those in Civvy Street.

    If you are in the field, at sea, or ashore and required to buy food at Civilian prices then you either don't pay, or you claim subsistence.

    You'll be telling me next we should have cheap subsidised housing for married people - oh hang on .....
    • Like Like x 1

  10. Read my previous post!

    Vosper Thorneycroft, Yarrow Shipbuilders, GEC, Marconi and BAE SYSTEMS to name a couple. Do you HONESTLY think that a company can send an employee somewhere to work for THEM and expect the employee to pay his own food and accom?

    Oh yes, I forgot to mention, there was also a hire car and/or flight paid for too.

    Or should I get myself from say Portsmouth to say Glasgow, at my own cost, then work all week staying in accomodation that I have paid for and eating evening meals in cheap greasy spoons or chippies, as 'I am paying'?

  11. I still don't get this argument. If you are at home you have to pay for the food that you eat - whether in the mess or bought from Morrison's, McDonald's or the local kebab shop. Why on earth should it suddenly become free because you are in a different geographical location?
  12. The only reason I can see why it should be free is when it costs more than you would normally have to pay.

    When I am sent to a PAYD establishment (on any day of the week), the price is the equivalent to being at home so have to pay. When I was sent to New Zealand recently (yes, nice trip) my food was paid for as I didn't have any choice but to eat out. A week later on an exercise, my food from a field kitchen was free.

    All seems logical to me.
  13. Utter shit. They do pay for meals and accom when you are away. As a general rule of thumb you get £50 a night, which if you're told at short notice is not enough for B&B and evening meal. If working in London the rate goes up to £75 a night.
  14., of course, do the Navy.

    I think the PAYD in the title of this thread is being deliberately ignored.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. I didn't. Civillian companies will pay for meals, though you're normally expected to pay for your own lucch.
  16. Because, I assume, they do not provide cheap 'canteen' facilities like the Navy do?
  17. Maybe talking out of my hoop but when my eldest gets sent off by his firm he pays for his lunch. If it's an overnight job they pay for the evening meal, accom and brekky.
  18. Never heard of any of the lads I work with having to pay for their own food. Of course I am not professing to know the intricacies of all companies food policy, you bell whiff.

    I have been mentioning food in my posts. £50 normal rate, £75 London. If you recall I said that if you're told at short notice it is not enough for B&B and evening meal.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2012
  19. Two topics here,

    1. Standard Civvy meals expenses (purely in my own IT employments)
    all travel or accommodation is paid for. Breakfast will be paid (normally upto £15) if not part of room rate. Lunch we are expected to cover ourselves, evening dinner £25 - £30 depending on area, drink can be included. Subsistence (drink, paper, phone call etc) of £5 in uk £10 abroad. My present employer allowances to be spread over the member of days, I.e if away four nights I can spend £4 on a salad for three nights and then spend £88 on the final night.

    2. As a reserve, we do not get X factor. in the old days before PAYD was implemented there was no way to recover a reserve pay and accomm. therefore we got this for free. (wrong I know, but after many years the reason was lost) Now there is a standard way of charging, it is acceptable we are charged. We have the same choice as the regular in this regard.

    The point, especially as it depends on new recruits to the reserves and PAYD is valid. It would be normal that a New Entree (JO or rating) would likely be at a junior position in Civvy street (due to age) or indeed not in employment, I.e student. therefore the minimal pay I.e a weekends pay a month is not really attractive given the hassle and expenses incurred. (we are expected o pay some of the travel ourselves). Another aspect is that it can take a longtime for pay to arrive in a new entry banks account, upto 18months in some cases. (that is another story though!). Therefore someone at minimum wage maybe having to pay the Navy to train for the first part of career. Not exactly good for recruitment.

    If the food could be deducted from future pay, then fine, but having to pay up front against wages you have earnt but not will not have paid for some months is an issue, if there is no other income.

    Civvie jobs and service are a different kettle, and expectations in one far outweigh the other. This is not a reserve drip, but a genuine challenge in recruitment for the reserves. With a bit more service and regular employment this ceases to be an issue in most cases, however the first couple of years are key to retention, and are right to be raised.
  20. *Bangs head on table*

    In the Navy, if there is no service accommodation or dining facilities available you will receive subsistence at rates similar to those you mentioned frogman (I don't know how much as I am out of the loop). If you are in service accommodation you will have very inexpensive 'canteen' facilities, and, surprise surprise, you are expected to cough up a few quid for what you eat as you would if you were at home.

    If Flagshit/Babcock, a civilian company, send someone to, I don't know, Rochdale maybe, they will pay subsistence as there is no military facility there (as far as I know). If they get sent to Pompey, they are expected to stay in a mess and pay PAYD. A civilian company that needs to budget, like the MOD. Why should the tax payer pay for you to eat an inexpensive meal that you would have had to pay for wherever you are?

    Why is this so difficult to understand?

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