Discussion in 'Bases / Shore Est' started by Grumpypickle, May 20, 2008.

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  1. I know the benefits and problems of this are huge but as far as actual facilities go has anyone used the new PAYD at Raleigh and / or Collingwood yet ?

    What do you think ?
  2. Have used it at various other establishments with the same result.

    It's shit.
  3. Used it at Nelson - crap. Used it at Heron - crap. Bring back the buffet breakfasts!
    Should be going to Faslane soon, then Raleigh the week after (hopefully) and shall see if the service is any better at either or both.
  4. The problem is that any time you complain about it (like I did with the Div / Reg Support Team last week), the standard answer you get is "it depends on the local contract". Has noone realised that the "local contract" is always crap, because the RN has never quite grasped the concept of contract negotiation.

    Do you think we could do a Downing Street petition to bring back "the old days"?
  5. I had the dubious honour of eating at the new raleigh PAYD on opening day, even though they pulled out all the stops to make it look good for all the brass it was still shit.

    best place I've had PAYD was Heron and that's only cos the specials menu wasn't too bad.
  6. Now I am not a Militant, but surely if EVERYONE slapped in a complaint about it, things may change, or am I a Mutineer.
  7. I know I left a long time ago, but surely the divisional system is still in place. perhaps if divisional officers held a divisional meeting to discuss alternative solutions it may be possible to bring about change.
  8. So, considering your argument, who are the Idiots that thought it up?

    They did`nt think it through, tying yourself down to a contract like that, means, in my humble opinion, that someones head surely has to roll.

    Whichever way you wish to look at it, and no matter your point of view, in my opinion It`s a crap deal.
  9. FFS, you live in a cabin ashore? Heres a tip from an old man, go to ASDA and top up with your breakfast stuff, you`ll save a fortune.
  10. Most of us that have been in for more than ten years asked for this. We were all asked what we wanted and most were fed up with paying for food at weekends when not on camp and fed up with paying for food when not eating in the galley.

    Agreed its shit, but its what we asked for.
  11. Well no matter why it was implemented you still have to wonder why the MoD allows itself to be tied down so massively in these sort of arrangements wherein they are obliged to comply with the contract even if it is crap. To be honest, isn't it common sense to have a get out clause if it all was/went tits up and Sodexho (for whatever theoretical reason) folded taking the catering and money with it?
  12. All contracts have exit clauses if the delivery performance isn't up to standard, although contract management in many areas of MoD is pretty poor so that the contracts are rarely enforced and the evidence isn't compiled to support the exit decision even if someone had the character to actually make that decision.

    One of the snags is that when a contract manager has accepted a lower level of service than the contract stipulates for a reasonable period then other aspects of contract law come into play and the contracted standard is reset to the lower level through custom and practice. The reasonable period is open for debate but I'd suggest that it's usually about two performance reviews, so for something like a catering contract that's probably a period of two to three months.

    The other aspect is contract length, and without knowing how long these contracts are it's difficult to predict behaviour. Supplier behaviour changes through the length of the contract, with the client having some leverage eaarly and in the last third as it's up for renewal. MoD tends to go for long contracts, so it becomes quite challenging to sustain performance. For something like a catering contract with minimal need for the contractor to be putting in much capital investment, the galleys and messes existed already, I wouldn't be going for more than two to three year contracts, but I'd estimate that MoD has probably gone for six or eight
  13. My specific query was about the PAYD facilities - the new ones at raleigh and collingwood - I'm based at Collingwood and have used Raleigh - and just wondered what anyone else thought about theses specific faciltites - I've also used a variety at othe Mod Bases.

    not PAYD as a concept
  14. Well having read the responses I think, on reflection, that the principle may be fairly sound and the service adequate but my definition of the level of "crapness" of the service was, which I didn't make clear, with regard to the quantity of the portions. Yes itdoes reduce wastage if you give everyone one sausage, a couple of rashers of bacon, half a spoon of beans and whatever else they put on the plate but it's not exactly filling is it?
    Anyway, enough of my stomach complaining.
    As an aside, when did MoD change to external contractors to man the kitchens (among other things?) from in-service sources (ie: chefs, etc)?
  15. Pay as you starve hasn’t got to Faslane—Yet.

  16. Even in the dark ages (late 60s) the galley at HMS Daedalus was run by civies, though they weren't contractors they may as well have been. They had portion control down to a fine art, it changed a little after some disgruntled killick made a phone call to the MOD Plods advising them that a certain civies bicycle saddle bags would reveal something of interest. :thumright:
  17. It would be interesting find out what the newbies think of the system who joined after PAYD came in.

    Without knowing the system myself, I can only comment generally, but IMO when any new system comes in, there will those for against the change. Its the vocal majority that counts (assuming the majority aren't being mislead).
    For example, with the new 10p tax band disappearing (without wishing to change the course of the thread) there are those that it will benefit and those who will lose out (as has been widely noted in the press).

    Whether the new system supports the majority or not, and whether it supports those not able to support themselves is the key IMO. If the stories about new ratings having to ask for advances and loans to pay for food are true, then this may not be a majority but it is not helping those 'unable' to help themselves (I say unable because for people who have never had any experience of money management it is very hard to learn quickly and plan ahead - I speak from personal experience!) in which case the system either needs to be changed completely or in part.

    I know there will be responses saying there's nothing they can do, they're only a low rate etc. To that I say bollox.

    And finally, I am reminded of a quote I heard recently, I cannot remember from where however - may even have been here! It regards voting and complaining and can be easy equated to this situation.
    "Those who don't vote have no right to complain."
    i.e. those who don't ask for change/adjustment have no right to complain.

    I eagerly await to be countered.
  18. I have used it in several locations with differing results,
    Nelson - Neither here nor there,
    RMB chivenor - Superb
    SEME Bordon - Utter crap. They seem to give you 3 choices which are shit to force you to buy off the retail menu.
  19. I've eaten at Collingrad and Nelson since PAYD. Food at Collingrad is pretty much the same but Nelson's gone downhill IMHO. However, as someone pointed out, the big change is with portion control. No "Fat Boy" breakfasts anymore!

    But don't get me started on Excellent!

  20. One of the problems with PAYD is the fact that lots of people will opt for the burger and chips / pizza / "unhealthy" option from the various cafes available instead of the previously offered more "regular" meal. We will not see the repercussions of this for a couple of years, but anecdotally there are issues in the Army at present which are difficult to address.

    Yes, in the old system you paid for meals which you didn't take. However that extra money in the system meant that when you did take a meal it was of a higher standard. As others have pointed out, the new system doesn't offer an awful lot in the way of savings unless you skimp on the meals and cook / eat in your cabin instead. This will lead to further problems though, as people will get home from work, go to their ensuite cabin and arguably have no reason to leave it until work the next day. They can watch TV, sit on t'internet and cook from the comfort of their own cabin: why bother with niceties like Mess life?

    The Armed Forces introduced the concept of a "square meal": now we have gone away from it. Society in general has become more obese and unhealthy: looks like we're going to follow suit. As ever, no long term view.

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