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Pay on entry to Dartmouth


Can anyone confirm how much you get paid upon entry to Dartmouth. I am joining as an engineer and will be 22 when I enter Datmouth. The Navy website states:

Annual basic pay (£) from 1 April 2005 Depends on Age on Entry and Rank Salary
Midshipman - Sub lieutenant 14,727-21,301



If you have a degree you will miss out being a Mid and get some enhanced seniority as a Subbie

Deleted 7

Isn't a Mid-shipman a path the younger take e.g. if your under 18yrs old or something?
Posted on another thread:

Since the advent of the Three Tier Commission (3TC) in 1999, having a degree makes no difference to your seniority date, promotion, or even your training pipeline. These days, rightly or wrongly, it's all to do with age not qualifications and everyone who joins up ages 21 or older will start as a Sub Lt with 1 yrs seniority, backdated to the start of the month. The days of the 24 year old ex-rating (or indeed the 21 year old who failed uni) Midshipman are well and truly over.

Basically your seniority on joining as an officer is as a Midshipman plus however much older you are from 18 (up to 21 onwards). So, seniority is:

18: Midshipman + 0
19: Midshipman + 1
20: Sub Lt + 0
21+: Sub Lt + 1

Hope that makes sense.


War Hero
Heard this is about to change, specifically for Warfare Officers. At preent you can have Lt's who haven't got their watch keeping certificate and not being able to be OOW, being subordinate to a a Subbiue, even a Middy if they're switched on, who joined at 17 and has managed to get all the courses under their belt to be OOW.

All will join as Middy, but with different pay grades according to age (and educational qualification?), and will only be promoted once they have passed the required professional courses. Thus, the link between pay and rank has been cut.


Lantern Swinger
Yeah I've heard that the Navy are trying to reduce the average age of entrants to BRNC (no doubt another cost-cutting measure cos of the difference between Middies and Subbies pay)

Technically though, joining at 17/18 as Midi means you have more years to get up through the ranks does it not?


Seems to me the way to do it is to join as an E(IS) straight in as a Lt. As E(IS) is becoming part of the WE branch. E(IS) YOs are being sent on WE SEMC and will have the opportunity to fill DWEOs posts. So you can the rank advantage of a schoolie and the sea time of a WE.
Don't think the quest for younger officers has anything to do with pay. You add it all up and it won't amount to much. The reason behind this change is to get them younger, flog them before they have time to find a fair maiden, bloke or fairy depending upon your bent and the innevitable departure from a service which is becoming more rather than less family friendly. Desto, the younger, the niaiver, the better. Furthermore, those that do stay the course will then be at a younger and more useful age for the amount of joint, unjoint and dislocated staff jobs etc. that will come their way. Of course there is far more to it than this misguided rant, but it aint far from the truth of recruiting a younger wardroom. I remember sitting with my Boss explaing to me that at 23 I was already passed it and a few years behind the curve. I had already been in for 2 years by then! I do like the idea of rank coming with naval experience though..that makes a lot of sense and stops a lot of the bollox that wafted around Darters during my time as well as sea dodgers and mallingerers from getting to Lt for nothing. Now lets start hacking away at those ETMs!!
I've never understood the whole ETMs joining as a Lt thing. E(IS) I can just about understand (there is a dire need for a computer-based RN to have a dedicated deployable IT branch), but why should glorified schoolteachers be paid tens of thousands more that their WE/ME/X colleagues in the first few years of their career (ie during training, before their first job)?

And whereas all the other branches have earnt the right to not have distinction cloth between the gold, why on earth have schoolies not got the traditional blue cloth? Like dentists, doctors and other occasional seagoers, ETMs are rarely at sea (although, like them, they do a good job when they do eventually set sail), have a useful job in shore bases, and have limited contact with small ships (ie FF/DDs and below).

Time for a new campaign - "Bring Back the Blue" for schoolies. And give them a pay cut as well.
At the first interview I had with my Area Liason Officer, he said that the Navy likes younger (i.e. People straight out of Sixth Form, pre-Uni) officers, purely for the reasons given above, I think that they are also trying to encourage this with the in-service degree. They have you for longer and can spend more time moving you around the service before you're past it, this is becoming more important in my view with the Government increasingly decreasing the size of the fleet, and therefore its workforce.

Funny how they forget all the work they do though, isn't it.


I'm abit of a special case (in many ways) I join BRNC in early September with a degree in mechanical engineering, however I went to school in Scotland untill i was 15 and so don't turn 21 until late september. I have been told different things by different people. I will be pretty gutted if I miss a years seiniority and get lower pay for the sake of a couple of weeks, especially considering i have been comitted since 17. In fact i would cry and people would laugh at me.


Book Reviewer
NearlyNavy said:
I'm a bit of a special case, especially considering i have been comitted since 17.

Which Hospital were you committed to, will they let you out to join the RN?


I have just managed to answer my own question. I didn`t like the answer. not even a little bit. As I am 21 days short of being 21 when I join I loose a years seniority and a lump of pay compaired to my mates joining at the same time. Means working on my degree for three years means jack sh*t. As I am already commited I was told applying for a defferal is a breach of contract. Wish they made this bullshit clear when i signed up. I did want a gap year but decided against it as I was in a hurry to get in the RN, might have well have.

Rant over.

Still looking forward to joining the best navy in the world, just a bit gutted about that.

Thanks for reading my winge.


Lantern Swinger
Awh thats too bad NearlyNavy. Seems a shame to be so close to the cut off point but I guess they have to draw the line somewhere (not that it's gonna make you feel better)

Still, I guess the attitude to take now is that there's nothing you can do to change it so just gotta keep going! I'm sure it'll be the last thing on your mind once you're living it up (?) at the college. As you say, best Navy in the world - many people dont even get in so at least thats something to be happy for!


War Hero
Book Reviewer
Panic not Nearly Navy - in the grand scheme of things it won't affect the price of fish in the long run. I joined 9 days shy of 21 which meant doing an extra year as a Mid... its not fun being the Fleet Mid at the age of 23 when everyone else that age is almost a Lt.... Given the nature of the promotion process, its no bad thing to have youth and an extra bit of sea room as regards seniority.

You will find that with all things RN - there will be lines for everything, and someone will always be the wrong side of it...just wait til you are a Divisional Officer!!!

Enjoy BRNC - it may not be easy to at times!! - just come from two fantastic years on the staff - best job I have had in the mob and I wish you luck.


Cheers for that guys, I've had my tantrum now and it's not put me off. Like you say at least I can join at all! Nice to have somewhere to vent, feel better for that. Like an old timer once said to me

"If you cant take a joke you shouln't have joined."
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