Pay on entry to Dartmouth


Can anyone confirm how much you get paid upon entry to Dartmouth. I am joining as an engineer and will be 22 when I enter Datmouth. The Navy website states:

Annual basic pay (£) from 1 April 2005 Depends on Age on Entry and Rank Salary
Midshipman - Sub lieutenant 14,727-21,301


Deleted 7

Isn't a Mid-shipman a path the younger take e.g. if your under 18yrs old or something?
Posted on another thread:

Since the advent of the Three Tier Commission (3TC) in 1999, having a degree makes no difference to your seniority date, promotion, or even your training pipeline. These days, rightly or wrongly, it's all to do with age not qualifications and everyone who joins up ages 21 or older will start as a Sub Lt with 1 yrs seniority, backdated to the start of the month. The days of the 24 year old ex-rating (or indeed the 21 year old who failed uni) Midshipman are well and truly over.

Basically your seniority on joining as an officer is as a Midshipman plus however much older you are from 18 (up to 21 onwards). So, seniority is:

18: Midshipman + 0
19: Midshipman + 1
20: Sub Lt + 0
21+: Sub Lt + 1

Hope that makes sense.


War Hero
Heard this is about to change, specifically for Warfare Officers. At preent you can have Lt's who haven't got their watch keeping certificate and not being able to be OOW, being subordinate to a a Subbiue, even a Middy if they're switched on, who joined at 17 and has managed to get all the courses under their belt to be OOW.

All will join as Middy, but with different pay grades according to age (and educational qualification?), and will only be promoted once they have passed the required professional courses. Thus, the link between pay and rank has been cut.


Lantern Swinger
Yeah I've heard that the Navy are trying to reduce the average age of entrants to BRNC (no doubt another cost-cutting measure cos of the difference between Middies and Subbies pay)

Technically though, joining at 17/18 as Midi means you have more years to get up through the ranks does it not?


Seems to me the way to do it is to join as an E(IS) straight in as a Lt. As E(IS) is becoming part of the WE branch. E(IS) YOs are being sent on WE SEMC and will have the opportunity to fill DWEOs posts. So you can the rank advantage of a schoolie and the sea time of a WE.
Don't think the quest for younger officers has anything to do with pay. You add it all up and it won't amount to much. The reason behind this change is to get them younger, flog them before they have time to find a fair maiden, bloke or fairy depending upon your bent and the innevitable departure from a service which is becoming more rather than less family friendly. Desto, the younger, the niaiver, the better. Furthermore, those that do stay the course will then be at a younger and more useful age for the amount of joint, unjoint and dislocated staff jobs etc. that will come their way. Of course there is far more to it than this misguided rant, but it aint far from the truth of recruiting a younger wardroom. I remember sitting with my Boss explaing to me that at 23 I was already passed it and a few years behind the curve. I had already been in for 2 years by then! I do like the idea of rank coming with naval experience though..that makes a lot of sense and stops a lot of the bollox that wafted around Darters during my time as well as sea dodgers and mallingerers from getting to Lt for nothing. Now lets start hacking away at those ETMs!!
I've never understood the whole ETMs joining as a Lt thing. E(IS) I can just about understand (there is a dire need for a computer-based RN to have a dedicated deployable IT branch), but why should glorified schoolteachers be paid tens of thousands more that their WE/ME/X colleagues in the first few years of their career (ie during training, before their first job)?

And whereas all the other branches have earnt the right to not have distinction cloth between the gold, why on earth have schoolies not got the traditional blue cloth? Like dentists, doctors and other occasional seagoers, ETMs are rarely at sea (although, like them, they do a good job when they do eventually set sail), have a useful job in shore bases, and have limited contact with small ships (ie FF/DDs and below).

Time for a new campaign - "Bring Back the Blue" for schoolies. And give them a pay cut as well.