Over manned by Officers (Army)

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Nutty, Aug 29, 2008.

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  1. Perhaps Norma may have a case. A report in todays Telegraph claims that the Army is overstaffed by 1000 to many Commissioned Officers but 4400 short in the other ranks.



    Overcrowded Officers Mess


    So is Pusser also overstocked with Commissioned Officers, we know they are both short and have retention problems with the lower deck. The MOD claim to have shortages in both the RN and RAF with all ranks.


    Nutty
     
  2. So is Pusser also overstocked with Commissioned Officers, we know they are both short and have retention problems with the lower deck. The MOD claim to have shortages in both the RN and RAF with all ranks.


    Nutty[/quote]

    Overstocked - NO, there are gaps. However not as many gaps as in the ranks.
     
  3. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    That's a bizarre report, and figures!

    I think it's probably a non-story, out of what should be c100,000 people they are 4400 short but have 950 of one particular specialisation too many (1%) that could be purely a training buffer.

    I'm doing some work with the engineering regiments at the moment and the one thing I keep hearing is that junior(ish) officers are leaving in droves. I suspect that the overall figures don't tell the whole story and whilst there are some regiments with too many there are as many with not enough officers. I know RE SNCO's and Officers are being poached by big construction companies in Afghan and Iraq by being offered huge sums of money c$20,000 a month.
     
  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I'd concur.

    The problem with 'edumacation' today is reflected in society, which is reflected eventually in the armed forces- the government wants everyone of school age to have a degree before they leave education despite their intellectual ability.

    Graduates are often lead to believe they will naturally manage, despite the fact that a degree does not a manager make. Often we get graduates that believe because they are academically eligible to join as an Officer then that is their destiny & many won't even consider the ratings/other rank option until they face reality by failing the Recruiting Test.

    The potential upshot is we end up with a shortage of "hands on" tradesmen & then the shortage categories have to be awarded higher salaries, again reflected in society.

    But yes, it's a non-story, as we near the end of the press silly season- everyone has a play with statistics to fill column space.

    Wonder what Norm makes of it?
     
  5. I think the problem is that thanks to the New Labour government many young people are going to university who really shouldnt and are doing degrees in "Mickey mouse" subjects which will not get them anywhere. They do not study academically rigorous programmes, and quite frequently have sub standard levels of literacy and numeracy, hence the fails for officer at recruiting test stage.
     
  6. As the Army numerically at least, is overborne i don't think your argument holds water.

    I think the bigger problem is that the societal lines that used to separate the wardroom from the mess deck have been disappearing steadily for the last 20 years. So have the differences between officers and ratings, well certainly fm my perspective as an ex-tiffs (ET, whatever). therefore you get ratings looking at officers with better accom, treatment, duty rosters, etc. with similar qualifications leading them to ask why the difference? Similarly when applying to join perhaps they don't want to settle for a lesser role if academically qualified to join as an officer.

    The bottom line as a tiff prepared to work you can get much better renumeration as a mivvy for a lot less grief, hence comments like NS's that The potential upshot is we end up with a shortage of "hands on" tradesmen & then the shortage categories have to be awarded higher salaries, again reflected in society.

    The other problem is that if you get someone with a degree (even a "mickey mouse" one)to join as a lower decker (actually never met one though quite a few with a pile of GCSE's and A levels as OM) they are generally completely underwhelmed by the job and lack of challenge and walk.
     
  7. I thought that rates such as AETs and marine engineers had quite a complex and difficult job? (Particularly AETs, as I gather the maths and engineering side of things proves to be too hard for quite a few recruits).
     
  8. I don't think its anything new, Sir John Harvey Jones' look at the RN in the 90s yielded much the same conclusions, top heavy organisation, needs to flatten, gaps at the operator levels and especially losses of trained and experienced middle managers at the PO/CPO levels, need to switch to rewarding maturity with remuneration as opposed to rank and hierarchy, the need to remove cross departmental barriers and create work structures that stop the "I dont do that" (not my part of ship) culture.

    Not that its restricted to the the forces though, most organisations are finding the same problems with departmental hierarchies and retention of talent in the middle management areas.
     
  9. This is an interesting puzzle. On the face of it, more people seem prepared to join, and perhaps stay, as officers than rates/other ranks. So do you limit the officer intake and limit the benefits to match the overall levels of recruitment/retention?

    We seem to forget that possession of a degree or a fist full of A Levels in underwater basket weaving doesn’t guarantee selection for officer training. Not everybody has aptitude for leadership and command. Perhaps there are scores of paper-qualified people out there who either fail AIB (or don’t want that level of responsibility) or don’t want a job that doesn’t demand their qualifications. That said, that may hold good for the Navy and the Air Force but wouldn’t necessarily hold good for the Army. Leaving aside REME and Signals, you would expect loads of bodies with no qualifications wanting to join. They aren’t, though. Maybe it’s now part of our British “youth culture†not to join the Services. I know lots of black kids “don’t want no Babylon manâ€. Perhaps it has a wider belief? I don’t want to get shot at and nobody tells me what to do or think? Being in a street gang is more cool than being in one of Aunty Betty’s?

    We have a Government hell bent on “social engineering†but isn’t overly bothered if this particular machine runs dry and seizes. The Forces are limited to what Society feeds them. We have more officers because they are predominantly the sort of people interested in serving.
     
  10. If I dont pass AIB Ill happily go in as an AET- my test scores are good enough and I know its a challenging rate which the navy has quite a shortage of. Advancement is pretty good as well, as I understand you can get fast tracked to PO if yu are good enough?
     

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