OOW qualifications

[safewalrus]

Sorry chaps, Killick RP2's don't get to be OOW's on may Grey Funnel Line vessels, in my day they were to busy helping out the OOW from a small dark room downstairs! (including the day we called the old man out because the OOW wasn't playing safe - phew that was fun).

Excuse me for an old fart but most of the ships I was doing OOW on were not going from A-B but messing around at B a lot of the time! I spent some 17 years on Oil Rig Support, lot more interesting! (incidentally three of my old ships were taken up by The Gray funnel line after the Falklands as Patrol boats - Pusser immediately doubled the crews and still had problems - I mean of course the Guardian, Sentinal and Protector).

The new River Boats are I believe based on Oil rig Support Vessels - and why not ideal for the job they are intended to do! After all WWII Corvettes were based on Whale Catchers and also worked well

 

[F169]

Safe Walrus: "Oil Rig support, incidentally three of my old ships were taken up by The Gray funnel line after the Falklands as Patrol boats" sorry Walrus, I rest my case, says it all if you'd said you were the skipper of a Brixham beamer I'd have more respect. Incidentally how can you be a killick and still be an RP2?

 

[safewalrus]

In my day most RP2's were killicks (60's & 70's) a very few were 1's but not many! things change, especially in pusser! I believe just after Ileft they discovered something called Seamanship and invented a whole new branch for them based on the old Boom Defense Technician badge, then sacked 'em all and then re-employed 'em. typical pusser lots of 'Rodneys' with no bloody idea of what they were doing (having said that there where some good one - the good officers were very good - but rare - the rest MMMmmm... The RFA had a saying about that - The RN were Gentlemen trying to be Officers, the MN Officers trying to be Gentlemen, and the RFA neither trying to be both! More truth in it than they realised! Put yourself where you want, I've been ashore some 6 years now so it's all a dim memory now anyway - nice to remember occasionally now the bed don't rock at nights! :roll:

 

[Nutty]

Safe Walrus: "Oil Rig support, incidentally three of my old ships were taken up by The Gray funnel line after the Falklands as Patrol boats" sorry Walrus, I rest my case, says it all if you'd said you were the skipper of a Brixham beamer I'd have more respect. Incidentally how can you be a killick and still be an RP2?

F169 or should we call you AAC Too "Aluminum A Class"

I was a L/S RP2 trained in Seamanship then in Radar it went
J/S or O/S RP Basic
O/S or A/B RP3
Senior A/B (Passed for L/S awaiting B13) or L/S RP2
Senior L/S (Passed for PO awaiting B13) or PO RP1
PO or CPO PRI, some who moved in to full time seamanship remained RP1's

So below is the daily winter weather you dealt with on Amazon as OOW was it.

Me think you are acting like a Crab FJ Jockey and being disrespectful to your betters i.e. an ex L/S RP2 now/was OOW on rig support vessels.

Nutty LSRP2SM

 

[slim]

Please don't acquire the current trend of qualifications that seem to be so prevalent these days.

Personality removal, completely arrogant attitude to all they deem lower than themselves and a total inability to talk to maintainers in a polite and civil way :x

Sorry but you are misguided in your thoughts. I have been assured by several of the officer corps here that things have changed since my day. This type of behaviour by officers would have been swiftly nipped in the bud.
Don't take it from me though, listen to your betters, the officer corps, remember your place.

 

[slim]

Sorry chaps, Killick RP2's don't get to be OOW's on may Grey Funnel Line vessels, in my day they were to busy helping out the OOW from a small dark room downstairs! (including the day we called the old man out because the OOW wasn't playing safe - phew that was fun).

Excuse me for an old fart but most of the ships I was doing OOW on were not going from A-B but messing around at B a lot of the time! I spent some 17 years on Oil Rig Support, lot more interesting! (incidentally three of my old ships were taken up by The Gray funnel line after the Falklands as Patrol boats - Pusser immediately doubled the crews and still had problems - I mean of course the Guardian, Sentinal and Protector).

The new River Boats are I believe based on Oil rig Support Vessels - and why not ideal for the job they are intended to do! After all WWII Corvettes were based on Whale Catchers and also worked well

Yet another non officer corps member talking through his backside. Listen to your betters, you couldn't possibly take a ship to sea without causing an incredible ammount of damage. I know because I have been lectured to at length by the officer corps.

 

[slim]

F169 you seem to be proving my point from a previous thread. Officer selection is not just broken it is completely unfit for purpose. Looks like arrogant officers still exist. You think I have chips on my shoulders, no wonder. Get back in your box (not box number 6)

 

[F169]

Thank you gents I am firmly in my box - it is about to be lowered six feet under............however I've seen as bad weather as those phots in a ton class and also in a Type 21. Although I wouldn't want to be so close to a rig as that!

Although it can be hairy in a small ship it doesnt mean a merchant navy officer would necessarily be fitted to be an OOW in a modern FF/DD. obviously some would and some wouldnt. Slim, I was being serious about a Brixham beamer - I have the greatest of respect for those who really have it tough at sea and it aint those in oil rig support vessels or pussers greys - if that is arrogance so be it.

Nutty - thanks for the RP 1/2 & killick info.

 

[slim]

Surely a ship is a ship. If a merchant naval officer is in possession of a ships masters ticket then I can see no reason why he/she would not be perfectly capable of driving one of her majesties war canoes. Or are we implying that the merchant navy have far superior systems to our vessels?
The arrogance was in the way that you belittled Safewalrus when you were not in possession of all the facts. A trait possessed by officers which I noticed frequently during my time in and out of the navy. Please do as senior rates used to be taught at Royal Arthur, engage brain before mouth.

 

[F169]

Safe Walrus, I should have acknowledged earlier and I apologise for not doing so, that the shiphandling and seamanship skills required in driving oil rig support vessels is probably of a much higher standard to that required of most pussers greys standfast perhaps the MCMVs.

 

[F169]

Slim old dear, I too have done the POLC at Royal Arthur so how about a cup of 'shut the f*ck up'? Paying attention at Royal Arthur may just have helped get me a little bit further in the mob than it did you, but at least you have the grace to accept you are a very well balanced individual. I am sure that helped your teammates a lot during the cliff 'n chasm.

"Surely a ship is a ship. If a merchant naval officer is in possession of a ships masters ticket then I can see no reason why he/she would not be perfectly capable of driving one of her majesties war canoes". Well I dont suppose you would Slim because either you are "engaging your brain before mouth" which apparently you do not do, or you are truly ignorant of the subjects discussed in this thread. As others have been at pains to point out to you, there are very different, more demanding skills required to be an OOW in an FF/DD than in a typical merchant ship.

 

[Nutty]

Slim old dear, I too have done the POLC at Royal Arthur so how about a cup of 'shut the f*ck up'? Paying attention at Royal Arthur may just have helped get me a little bit further in the mob than it did you, but at least you have the grace to accept you are a very well balanced individual. I am sure that helped your teammates a lot during the cliff 'n chasm.

"Surely a ship is a ship. If a merchant naval officer is in possession of a ships masters ticket then I can see no reason why he/she would not be perfectly capable of driving one of her majesties war canoes". Well I dont suppose you would Slim because either you are "engaging your brain before mouth" which apparently you do not do, or you are truly ignorant of the subjects discussed in this thread. As others have been at pains to point out to you, there are very different, more demanding skills required to be an OOW in an FF/DD than in a typical merchant ship.

F169

Just as you seem to accept that the occupants of the bunhouse are not super infallible humans you decide the the skills of OOW of a pussers skimmer are more demanding than that of merchant ships. Just how much experience of these merchant ships do you have to be able to make that statement?


Concerning roughers you say I have done that in a Ton and A Class Frigate. Well I have done it on the surface in a T Class SSK and various P and O Class SSK's both on and under the surface not to mention a Loch Class frigate and a type 12. But neither of us did it year in year out daily in the commercial world whre money and time rules. You either had a desk job, trainers job or were tied up to some jetty most of the time.

Yes you do have the arrogance of a Crab FJ jockey and wot makes it worse is you appear to have come up from the Lower Deck giving sustenance to them that say Pigs promoted from the Lower Deck are the most snobbish and arrogant. Not an idea I support but you appear desperate to prove it so.

Nutty

PS How did the OOW and his happy bridge team manage to miss (as described by the Captian of Nottingham to the Australiam press) a white wall of breaking water about 1 metre high stretching 50 to 100 metres each side of the ship. Oh they were all looking astern watching a helicopter land cos they had never seen it before or was it they lacked the demanding skills required to be a bridge watch keeper perhaps the MN should have trained them.

 

[F169]

Nutty, would you like a cup too? One lump or two? You are as entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. My experience of the MN is limited to commercial fishing vessels and RFAs, and going 'from point A to point B' across several oceans on several occasions in warships. I am not suggesting that OOWs in the merchant marine do not do an important job.

However, if you do not accept that there are different and 'more demanding skills' required to be an OOW on an FF/DD than on a typical MN vessel there is absolutely nothing I can say that is going to shift you from that and we aren't even discussing the RN OOW's secondary duties when nhe is 'off watch'.

On that basis I imagine you would think a fighter pilot jock could be replaced by a commercial airline pilot? I do not understand how pressures in the "commercial world where money and time rules" would affect the performance of the OOW on the bridge any more than time pressures and changes of plans affect the RN OOW.

As LTCOOTB put it earlier in this thread “I know a number of people who considered transferring to the merchant navy (myself included) and we all did a lot of research into it. In the end, I only know one person who did it and he found it so boring going a straight line all day and transferred back to the RNâ€.

Obviously SafeWalrus’ experience belies this and I have apologized to him above for unintentionally belittling his role.

Your refer to HMS NOTTINGHAM, why not to the TORREY CANYON? Mistakes happen in both services, you cannot become competent in a classroom, you gain real experience by doing the real job, with the risk of making mistakes. There but for the grace of God go I.

 

[Guns]

I could sit here no longer so felt I must chip in.

The OOW of an LPD. Must hover his/her 19000 ton ship, without the use of bow thruster due to Norwegian Fjords being only 20m either side. Needing to conduct helo ops, boat ops and dock ops. All three require a different course and coupled to that you are the command platform and best make sure the satellite has direct line. Now add in 30kts wind gusting. You are 1 in 2 and the exercise is 3 weeks old.

Humm I suspect this happens all the time in the MN so would love to hear from some on how they do it.

The OOW is a different job to the MN. Horses for courses. I have had the pleasure of MN RNR Master doing stint as an OOW in the LPD. He is a DP qualified Master and was amazed that we did what we did. That said I thought it was good that he got Master of a vessel at an early age and was able to hover his ship using a cool portable joystick arrangement. We both agreed that he enjoyed toddling around in his rig support drilling thingy vessel and I enjoyed what I did. Both different skill sets.

So please to all the bitter ex SR and JR (and officers but that I will not go into just now as my blood pressure is high enough as it is) it is different from when you were in. The OOW on a pusser grey is doing far more that just driving the ship. Outside of his OOW duties he will be a divisional officer, maybe the Met Officer, DC/FF party post officer, doing a Service Fund audit, FTSP Officer (old AMP Officer so plenty of non warfare management going on there), Visits officer, Affiliated SCC, School or charity liaison officer, gaining their BWQ, looking to advancement, might even be the Fighter Controller and a whole host of other jobs. Most MN OOW do not do flying, submarine ops, ADEX, handle a fast moving Asymmetric threat ( three boats closing at 1 nm, what are your ROE? Do you give the order for the FP team to close up? – the new threat has seen far greater responsibility being passed to the OOW as the CO/PWO do not have the time to make it to the bridge and do that.), taking station on another ship within a screen negative radar (EMCON silent).

That said the MN have to know how to load a ship for ballast, ferry vehicle loading, dangerous cargos and their workings, how to hand over your ship to a pilot on entering a port so that you do not have to do any actual pilotage, and the wonderful world of passenger rules and regulations etc.

Different rules different circumstances, you do your job we do are.

 

[Bad_Monkey]

Totally agree with Guns it is definately Horses for Courses and there is little direct comparison between the two roles except they are both at sea sharing the same ocean.

OOW are the most underappreciated Officers onboard and have to work hard to gain their qualifications working long hours unlike some of the other 0800-1600 personel onboard.

It is about time they were recognised for what they have achieved and not belitted as arogant snotties.

 

[Nutty]

F169

I overtly highlighted the word I had objection to, "more demanding skills". I happily accept that both jobs have to have different skills and the non core tasks can vary a great deal. It is the sheer effrontery that you assume your skills are more demanding than that of a OOW of a 100,000 ton cruise ship in the West Indies with 2000 paying and demanding passengers or that of a Barent Sea Crab Fisherman recently shown on Discovery. Both these people have to show a profit or starve. You are supported by a tax paying public and do not have to justify your decisions to them directly only along some tenuous chain of command.

Nutty

 

[slim]

Why am I kept being informed that things are different from when I was in the RN. From posts written by the officer corps all I see is the same arrogant officers. Remarks like "shut the f*ck up". Fortunately many of us have now parted company with the RN and no longer have to endure the percentage of officers who fail to realise that the men on the lower deck are actually human.
Hope you enjoy your meals F169, better treat your steward nicely. Do not attempt to enter box 6.

 

[safewalrus]

Look fellahs lets not argue about who is best, as the man said above it's horses for courses! MN Officers don't do heli ops (actually on a lot of ships they do!) RN Officers don't load lots of cargo and worry about stability(actually on some vessels they do - LPD) - every body has other duties! communication officers, DO's (under a different name) etc etc. The list goes on! Both RN and MN officers have to wear pretty uniforms (OK in some cases not all the time)! But the bottom line is the fact that the poor old OOW is probably the most put upon person on the ship - no matter the service! Just remember the bottom line - when the Captain/Master/Skipper is not on the Bridge HE (the OOW) is Responsible for the ship and the lives of ALL onboard her (and anybody else he may run into)! So lets not spend our time slagging each other off, lets just get together and remind the rest just how important the OOW is - past present and future!

End of tirade!!

 

[safewalrus]

F169 your apology accepted but not nearly necessary, after all your only doing that which is encouraged by the so called leaders - pride in service and job! (and if you ain't got that your lost) Having said that please refer to my tirade above!!

the Walrus - (37 years at sea, man and boy, 10 Royal, 27 Merchant - Junior Seaman to Chief Officer, actually loved most of 'em, including the arguments!)