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One hundred top brass get marching orders in new defence cuts to save £4million a yea

scouse

War Hero
No pickets ...too true the AEW Gannet of 849 flight had a range of some 700 NM, and then could switch the APS 20 on giving it a further range of 200 NM. Staying airborne all day on one engine if need be :angel12:
 

Taffd

Lantern Swinger
The Ark was an old lady in 1976 when I served in her. However had money been spent to upgrade her she could have gone on for many more years. However what was needed was a new replacement.
However even in 1976 she was capable of destroying anything that the Argentinians had. The AEw Gannets would have transmitted data for ALL incoming aircraft. The Phantoms would have intercepted and destroyed these aircraft and finally the Buccaneers could have bombed Stanley using Medium Toss proceedures without overflying the island.
No type 42s would have been lost as there would have been NO REQUIREMENT for pickets.

Get a grip. That Ark was shit. Morale was shit. A lot of the crew were shit. Bits fell off every time a plane was launched.

It was just a ship. A shit ship and it needed to be scrapped.

Don't try to re-fight the Falklands with a shit ship.
 

slim

War Hero
Get a grip. That Ark was shit. Morale was shit. A lot of the crew were shit. Bits fell off every time a plane was launched.

It was just a ship. A shit ship and it needed to be scrapped.

Don't try to re-fight the Falklands with a shit ship.


I do not disagree with you, however the reason that the Ark was shit was due to a lack of a major refit.
The Ark would not have been in service by the time the Falklands occurred,however if the powers that be had listened to the Admirals the fleet would have had two new Aircraft Carriers not toy ships they called through deck cruisers, namely Ark & Invincible.
The UK needed carriers but politicians never listened (same as today)
 

Taffd

Lantern Swinger
I do not disagree with you, however the reason that the Ark was shit was due to a lack of a major refit.
The Ark would not have been in service by the time the Falklands occurred,however if the powers that be had listened to the Admirals the fleet would have had two new Aircraft Carriers not toy ships they called through deck cruisers, namely Ark & Invincible.
The UK needed carriers but politicians never listened (same as today)

Bit tough to convince politicians; not enough Admirals unfortunately.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Or it could be said that the Politicians listened to the Admirals pushing a fairly unconvincing case for an abortion of a carrier design which was there to support an East of Suez policy that the UK could no longer afford, and that in a time of focusing on the Atlantic, the need for a fixed wing carrier was considerably less.
Personally the fact that the politicians got the message and forced the Admiralty to focus on the real threat of the day (namely ASW) and put resources into less glamorous but essential things like ASW frigates and not big boys toys is a useful sign that sometimes its useful to have to justify your existence to a civilian.
 

slim

War Hero
Or it could be said that the Politicians listened to the Admirals pushing a fairly unconvincing case for an abortion of a carrier design which was there to support an East of Suez policy that the UK could no longer afford, and that in a time of focusing on the Atlantic, the need for a fixed wing carrier was considerably less.
Personally the fact that the politicians got the message and forced the Admiralty to focus on the real threat of the day (namely ASW) and put resources into less glamorous but essential things like ASW frigates and not big boys toys is a useful sign that sometimes its useful to have to justify your existence to a civilian.

Unfortunately the East of Suez carrier was exactly what we required for the Falklands.
We lost ships and brave men because the Type 42s were required for picket duties, they were extremely badly designed and armed for such a role. When I was on Manchester the captain reckonned that the most powerful weapon the ship had was the Lynx helicopter.
Type 42s had no defence system until the late mid to late 80s when the Phalanx gun was fitted.
 

jaggers

Lantern Swinger
One in five senior officers in the Armed Forces will lose their jobs as part of the latest round of defence cuts.
Almost 100 top brass will be made redundant or see their posts disappear in the next two years, with the cull beginning at the rank of brigadier in the Army, commodore in the Royal Navy and air commodore in the Royal Air Force.

100 top brass get marching orders in new defence cuts to save £4million a year | Mail Online
(Source: Daily Mail)

About bloody time! Ridiculous situation to have more Admirals than ships, what did these guys do with their time?
 

dabber11

Midshipman
Perhaps at the same time they can get rid of some of the what used to be called stewards (have no idea what they are now) probably the most over protected branch of the RN. Before all the shock horror quotes of crumb shufflers are really important to the running of ships etc. This is the 21st century occifers can clean their own Bats and I hear are allowed out on their own now.
 
A

angrydoc

Guest
Perhaps at the same time they can get rid of some of the what used to be called stewards (have no idea what they are now) probably the most over protected branch of the RN. Before all the shock horror quotes of crumb shufflers are really important to the running of ships etc. This is the 21st century occifers can clean their own Bats and I hear are allowed out on their own now.

Law of unintended consequences: look at the other things stewards do at sea. Who are you going to job off with first aid, duty watch, SSEP, watchkeeping POs, often FDO? If you think stewards only polish bats then, like many on this thread, you are living in yesterday's RN.

And, to their main role, don't forget the soft diplomacy of CTPs - cant imagine the stokers running that. Well, I can, but it ain't pretty.

I've never had my bats polished for me, for info, and I'm of the rank that most would expect that to happen. Times have changed!
 

dabber11

Midshipman
And we have the first nibble!!! Stewards shiny arse all night inners at sea always first off the gangway when alongside and then whinge when they get lumbered for a cock and arse. Just after all the 42's carriers, sweepers and other sleek grey harbingers of death I have had well, they never did a lot except sit in the wardroom pantry supping tea stating how hard they work. Bunch of cnuts!! How dare they have occifers serving themselves....
 

scouse

War Hero
Looks like the general census of opinion from a certain quarter!!!!! Is that we need all the top Brass and Stewards then!! ^^;
 

dabber11

Midshipman
As an addendum to this in the so called lean navy surely there should be no passengers in my eyes stewards are passengers you can complain all you want about SSEP etc. Surely it could be a 3 month stint like DHP to serve the occifers no numbers lost more stokers, war fighting types to take the slack as for cock and arses I thought the government had stopped those due to the cost.
 
A

angrydoc

Guest
You know, you're right. The redundancy cell clearly hasn't done its job at all over the last few years and completely overlooked an entire branch. You should have in that cell, maybe even as a Cdre! I think you should petition 1SL (an Admiral, how dare he).
 

dabber11

Midshipman
It also gave me great strength to know that whilst we were in the NAG in the OPS room 6 on and 6 off for months that the stewards were working really hard watching movies during the day and head down during the night. Not wasters eh!!!
 

frogman007

War Hero
Law of unintended consequences: look at the other things stewards do at sea. Who are you going to job off with first aid, duty watch, SSEP, watchkeeping POs, often FDO? If you think stewards only polish bats then, like many on this thread, you are living in yesterday's RN.

And, to their main role, don't forget the soft diplomacy of CTPs - cant imagine the stokers running that. Well, I can, but it ain't pretty.

I've never had my bats polished for me, for info, and I'm of the rank that most would expect that to happen. Times have changed!

Within reason I was agreeing, right up until I read that line. Get a grip this isn't Victorian England.

For the record I don't believe that was a bite.
 

dabber11

Midshipman
Had an admiral in the Chiefs mess once and I did raise this thorny issue. Absolutely swerved the answer even though all in the mess agreed with the argument finally said "that's it this conversation is finished" Not protected eh!!!
 

dabber11

Midshipman
OK last bleat!! If the stewards of this world were to disappear tomorrow and be replaced by something like a DHP would anyone notice?
 
OK last bleat!! If the stewards of this world were to disappear tomorrow and be replaced by something like a DHP would anyone notice?

Yes, the stewards.

Presumably quickly followed by the 4 lads, 1 killick, and a PO who, minding their own business on their part of ship, were suddenly on their way to the wardroom pantry at the rush....
 

frogman007

War Hero
To be fair I think you've taken that in the wrong vein - I read that to say the the 'most' who would expect that to happen would be the 'most' who also beleive that all officers have their shoes polished and arses wiped by Std; not that there is a rank where 'most' officers feel that this should happen.

Although happy for A_D to confirm or deny, but i'd be surprised if it was written as you have perceived it (the written word is easy to take out of context on t'interweb/email etc)


In that case............
 
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