Once again the Crabs blow their own foot off.....

wardmaster said:
chieftiff said:
Wardmaster your attitude stinks, do you or have you actually served in the Armed Forces?

I was attempting to say what others in this discussion have also said; MOD has rules which apply to all service deaths, and getting all emotional and insulting doesn't alter that. Calling me a bastard as Lingyai has is really insulting my mother, and I take a dim view of that. I may have seen the inside of a uniform, I may not have; I may have some experience of service death procedures, I may not have. So what?

that'll be a no then.........
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
wardmaster said:
As a final post on this topic: I did not describe the family's grief as over-sensitive; I described some posters' remarks as over-emotional. Please take the trouble to read posts before joining the baying mob.

No, your exact words were "A little bit of sense among the over-emotional crap." inferring your view on the subject, not an individual posters' remarks. If you are indeed serving, and I tend to agree with Wet_blobby's opinion on that, you may one day be called upon to assist the family of an oppo in their time of grief, I hope you have grown up by then.

Edited to add: grammatically it should have been: amongst the over emotional.......... unless of course you are a yank?
 

polariod

Lantern Swinger
Wardmaster, theMOD has rules which apply to service deaths, I was'nt aware of that, thank you for pointing it out to me. Full Stop.

The posters in this thread are "getting all emotional"and are spouting "over emotional crap" because a serviceman has died The services are one big family and as such we all feel emotional when a family member dies.

If you have served in the Armed Forces surely you appreciate this. Even if you have not served have you become insensitive to grief in your career of rule bound civil service? Human beings express grief in different ways, this thread is to me a typical outpouring of serving and ex serving members grief, why because he was one of ours, a real life gone and not a mere statistic.

You asked to be called a bastard and you were so do not blame others for carrying out your express wishes.

As Chieftiff rightly points out financial support for comrades families can and does come from a number of sources within the services. I hope the bill which some insensitive faceless civil servant presented to the grieving family is recovered by his comrades and that they resolve any overspend in the traditional way of comrades in arms.

Pol
 
I need to make a few points.

1) I made my first posting on this topic thinking that Diamond Lil's is supposed to be broadminded and robust. The originator wanted it to be irreverent, otherwise it would have been put in Current Affairs.

2) Responses to my post have been mixed. Some were reasoned and agreed that rules is rules, and others added the point that better management of the case should have solved the financial side without recourse to the deceased's family. Still other responses were as to be expected in Diamond Lil's.

3) When I was in uniform I had considerable experience of Service funerals (the clue is in the name) and I always found the MOD civil servants in charge of the Funerals budget to be receptive and sympathetic. I also kept continous contact with funeral directors so that I could head off anything which might stress the family. RAF Funeral officers may work differently.

4) I am now accused of not sharing the collective grief at the death of a Serviceman. It is an unfortunate sign of the "Dianafication" of our times that we are expected to share everyone's grief. I personally don't think that it is possible; I sympathise with the family's grief but I can't possibly share it. Those who claim that they do share such grief each time a Serviceman/woman is killed should seek psychiatric help.

Now, can we get on with something else?
 
wardmaster said:
I need to make a few points.

1) I made my first posting on this topic thinking that Diamond Lil's is supposed to be broadminded and robust. The originator wanted it to be irreverent, otherwise it would have been put in Current Affairs.

2) Responses to my post have been mixed. Some were reasoned and agreed that rules is rules, and others added the point that better management of the case should have solved the financial side without recourse to the deceased's family. Still other responses were as to be expected in Diamond Lil's.

3) When I was in uniform I had considerable experience of Service funerals (the clue is in the name) and I always found the MOD civil servants in charge of the Funerals budget to be receptive and sympathetic. I also kept continous contact with funeral directors so that I could head off anything which might stress the family. RAF Funeral officers may work differently.

4) I am now accused of not sharing the collective grief at the death of a Serviceman. It is an unfortunate sign of the "Dianafication" of our times that we are expected to share everyone's grief. I personally don't think that it is possible; I sympathise with the family's grief but I can't possibly share it. Those who claim that they do share such grief each time a Serviceman/woman is killed should seek psychiatric help.

Now, can we get on with something else?
Make sure you sound 3 long blasts as you start pedalling astern.. :wink:
 
Lingyai said:
wardmaster said:
I need to make a few points.

1) I made my first posting on this topic thinking that Diamond Lil's is supposed to be broadminded and robust. The originator wanted it to be irreverent, otherwise it would have been put in Current Affairs.

2) Responses to my post have been mixed. Some were reasoned and agreed that rules is rules, and others added the point that better management of the case should have solved the financial side without recourse to the deceased's family. Still other responses were as to be expected in Diamond Lil's.

3) When I was in uniform I had considerable experience of Service funerals (the clue is in the name) and I always found the MOD civil servants in charge of the Funerals budget to be receptive and sympathetic. I also kept continous contact with funeral directors so that I could head off anything which might stress the family. RAF Funeral officers may work differently.

4) I am now accused of not sharing the collective grief at the death of a Serviceman. It is an unfortunate sign of the "Dianafication" of our times that we are expected to share everyone's grief. I personally don't think that it is possible; I sympathise with the family's grief but I can't possibly share it. Those who claim that they do share such grief each time a Serviceman/woman is killed should seek psychiatric help.

Now, can we get on with something else?
Make sure you sound 3 long blasts as you start pedalling astern.. :wink:

I don't think he is going astern at all.
 
The real question is did the family actually ask for these 'additional' services, and if they did were they told they were 'extras'. If the answer to both these questions is not yes then the MOD should be told to find some other source of funds.

Having not that long ago been involved in organising a family funeral, professionals are actually very good an ensuring you know the cost implications of the choices you are asked to make.
 

sweeney

Lantern Swinger
I am still getting over the fact that 300 people can 600 pounds worth of biscuits... Even if they were penguin biscuiost, its still a lot of biscuits. Probably explains why they had to drink so much tea.

Oh yes, thankyou, I am the voice of reason!
 
Having had to organise several military funerals in my time, normally the family don't have a problem paying for floral tributes and a wake, since these are seen a personal tribute from the family.

However, it is usual to make it clear from the start that the MOD will usually only pay for certain things and that the NOK may wish to organise and provide the "personal touches" themselves. If the unit want to chip in then this should be agreed beforehand with them and the family.

Without knowing the particular details of this one, there may have been a misunderstanding about who pays for what, and the family may have been surprised to be sent an invoice they weren't expecting.

If the invoice is submitted and includes anything not laid down in JSP351, then it could possibly be sent back causing embarrassment to family, service and the Funeral Director.

I'm not defending the rules, just telling it how it is.
 
sweeney said:
I am still getting over the fact that 300 people can 600 pounds worth of biscuits... Even if they were penguin biscuiost, its still a lot of biscuits. Probably explains why they had to drink so much tea.

Oh yes, thankyou, I am the voice of reason!

You would be surprised how much embedded caterers get away with charging for tea and biccies, £2 a skull is reasonable.
 

mad_collie

Midshipman
DingDong said:
Surely a donation from E-Goat would have cleared this up?

If it comes down to it, the members on E-Goat have pledged to raise the cash for the family.

Thanks for your words about the injustice of this.
 
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