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Oh dear, it's happened again.

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
The laptop actually belonged to the Signals and the MOD have claimed that it contained unclassified data. I think this might be a bit of a non-story.
 
Lets hope so, the ITV evening news claimed it may have the names of SAS members on it.
Still, it's slack of whoever was responsible for it's safe keeping.
Bollockings await no doubt. :(
 

(granny)

RIP
Book Reviewer
TimeToJoinUp said:
The laptop actually belonged to the Signals and the MOD have claimed that it contained unclassified data. I think this might be a bit of a non-story.

How can the loss of an MOD Laptop be considered a non-story. It matters not a jot that it is said to contain non-secret material. The fact is that it WAS lost. It shows a lack of proffessionalism that nowadays seems to be rife in the MOD. Have I not heard somewhere that dozens of Laptops have gone missing recently? One day the laxity will end up with a serious breach of security. Who will suffer? Not the experts!! of the MOD.
 
(granny) said:
TimeToJoinUp said:
The laptop actually belonged to the Signals and the MOD have claimed that it contained unclassified data. I think this might be a bit of a non-story.

How can the loss of an MOD Laptop be considered a non-story. It matters not a jot that it is said to contain non-secret material. The fact is that it WAS lost. It shows a lack of proffessionalism that nowadays seems to be rife in the MOD. Have I not heard somewhere that dozens of Laptops have gone missing recently? One day the laxity will end up with a serious breach of security. Who will suffer? Not the experts!! of the MOD.


Damned right, it's a complete disgrace.






By the way, would you be interested in buying a slightly used laptop?

:thumbleft:
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
Losing a piece of equipment on a field exercise is hardly comparable to leaving a laptop full of sensitive material on a train. If this laptop did not contain any sensitive material then I can't see any difference between losing it and losing a pair of boots. The person responsible will be disciplined in the normal way, but it still isn't worth making the news.
 

Pete_N

Badgeman
TimeToJoinUp said:
Losing a piece of equipment on a field exercise is hardly comparable to leaving a laptop full of sensitive material on a train. If this laptop did not contain any sensitive material then I can't see any difference between losing it and losing a pair of boots. The person responsible will be disciplined in the normal way, but it still isn't worth making the news.

Don't really agree with your logic there; the fact that this laptop may not have had any classified material is fortunate, but it still had the potential to contain lots of sensitive information that should not 'go missing'. Losing a pair of boots (unless of course said boots have top secret paperwork stuffed inside them prior to their disappearance) is not similar in consequence to losing a laptop.
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
Pete_N said:
Don't really agree with your logic there; the fact that this laptop may not have had any classified material is fortunate, but it still had the potential to contain lots of sensitive information that should not 'go missing'. Losing a pair of boots (unless of course said boots have top secret paperwork stuffed inside them prior to their disappearance) is not similar in consequence to losing a laptop.

Whilst I now see that the boot comparison was perhaps a misjudgment on my behalf, I still don't think you've quite hit the nail on the head with yours.

How about comparing the laptop to a stack of medical forms? The stack of medical forms have "the potential" to contain restricted information, as does the laptop. The point at which it becomes important is when a doctor puts pen to paper and fills it out. Before this, the forms can be treated as any other form of paper.

The procedures for handling a laptop (or medical form) with restricted information on it are different for those without. To speculate that this would have happened to a laptop with restricted data on it because it happened to one without takes a long stretch of the imagination.
 

(granny)

RIP
Book Reviewer
TimeToJoinUp said:
Pete_N said:
Don't really agree with your logic there; the fact that this laptop may not have had any classified material is fortunate, but it still had the potential to contain lots of sensitive information that should not 'go missing'. Losing a pair of boots (unless of course said boots have top secret paperwork stuffed inside them prior to their disappearance) is not similar in consequence to losing a laptop.

Whilst I now see that the boot comparison was perhaps a misjudgment on my behalf, I still don't think you've quite hit the nail on the head with yours.

How about comparing the laptop to a stack of medical forms? The stack of medical forms have "the potential" to contain restricted information, as does the laptop. The point at which it becomes important is when a doctor puts pen to paper and fills it out. Before this, the forms can be treated as any other form of paper.

The procedures for handling a laptop (or medical form) with restricted information on it are different for those without. To speculate that this would have happened to a laptop with restricted data on it because it happened to one without takes a long stretch of the imagination.


No it doesn't. It HAS happened. Human nature doesn't discriminate and say that if it is restricted I won't loose it. It is the whole lack of professionalism that allows it to happen. Ever hear the tale of the 'horse shoe nail'?
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
Human nature may not, but procedures do. You would need to see a case where the correct procedures were not taken when using restricted material in order to draw that conclusion. Whilst I agree that there are such cases (laptop on train) this is not an example of it.

This story only made the news because the author could put the words laptop and MOD in the article. The author is milking the fact that another incident occurred that involved the MOD and a laptop, ignoring the fact that the situation is very different. It's a mountain out of a molehill.
 

(granny)

RIP
Book Reviewer
TimeToJoinUp said:
Human nature may not, but procedures do. You would need to see a case where the correct procedures were not taken when using restricted material in order to draw that conclusion. Whilst I agree that there are such cases (laptop on train) this is not an example of it.

This story only made the news because the author could put the words laptop and MOD in the article. The author is milking the fact that another incident occurred that involved the MOD and a laptop, ignoring the fact that the situation is very different. It's a mountain out of a molehill.

According to your logic it's okay to lose a laptop as long as it hasn't got any restricted material on it. Can I have the next one please. It's only MY tax money that is being wasted.
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
(granny) said:
According to your logic it's okay to lose a laptop as long as it hasn't got any restricted material on it. Can I have the next one please. It's only MY tax money that is being wasted.

No, not at all. Infact, I have already previously pointed out that the person or people involved will and should be punished in the usual manner. The point I'm raising is that this isn't a news worthy story, nor really anything to get angry about.

Did you never lose anything when you were in? I lost a ground spike in 2002, did this make the news? The article seems to be making some kind of big deal about the fact it's a laptop when this is just an aside. The value of the laptop pales into insignificance when compared to the total value of kit lost in the armed forces.

If the article were about the money spent on lost kit in the armed forces then I'd be on your side (it's my tax money too), but it isn't. It's about a reporter who had a slow news day and decided to sensationalise an every day occurance.
 

(granny)

RIP
Book Reviewer
TimeToJoinUp said:
(granny) said:
According to your logic it's okay to lose a laptop as long as it hasn't got any restricted material on it. Can I have the next one please. It's only MY tax money that is being wasted.

No, not at all. Infact, I have already previously pointed out that the person or people involved will and should be punished in the usual manner. The point I'm raising is that this isn't a news worthy story, nor really anything to get angry about.

Did you never lose anything when you were in? I lost a ground spike in 2002, did this make the news? The article seems to be making some kind of big deal about the fact it's a laptop when this is just an aside. The value of the laptop pales into insignificance when compared to the total value of kit lost in the armed forces.

If the article were about the money spent on lost kit in the armed forces then I'd be on your side (it's my tax money too), but it isn't. It's about a reporter who had a slow news day and decided to sensationalise an every day occurance.

So now losing a laptop is an everyday occurance? At about £500 a pop thats a lot 'ground spikes!!
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
Losing kit is an every day occurance, and the law of averages states that sometimes the lost items will be more valuable than others.

We are diverging from the point a little now though I feel, although it is nice to get a good debate going. :D
 

Pete_N

Badgeman
TimeToJoinUp - I understand what you're getting at, and I'm sure there are more expensive things that go missing within the MOD from time to time. However, I feel that the loss of yet another laptop is entirely news worthy; it identifies to the public who ultimately foot the bill that the MOD (and other public bodies) don't really seem to care about losing expensive equipment, despite the hammering they've had in the press over it in recent months/years.

I agree, if everything that was lost made the news then there wouldn't be much room for anything else in your sunday morning read, but surely by now the MOD should have learnt its lesson where their equipment is concerned, especially laptops. There are procedures in place to ensure that laptops containing non-classified material aren't lost and they have not been adhered to in this case, so why should policies concerning the secure transit/storgae of other 'classified-info-packed' laptops be considered bulletproof? The point of the news story is to highlight that MOD policies and procedures are not being followed and this can have a negative effect on the MOD, its employees and its tax paying funders.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant, but yes, I do think that the loss of the latest MOD laptop is well worth an article in any newspaper, tabloid rag or otherwise.
 

YouAreHavingALaugh

Lantern Swinger
Yes more expensive things are lost, here is an example which can be verified:

The RN once had 12 T45 on order and someone lost the second piece of paper for the last 6.

The result, we now have only 6 on order. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is okay said the MOD CS it was only a piece of paper, we have some more on next years finacial year budget on order.
 
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