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Officers and submarines

B

Blapto

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I'm considering joining as an officer, either WAFU or Warfare (but please don't debate the relative merits here, I get enough on either side from everywhere else!)
In preperation for AIB I'm researching everything I'm interested in doing in the RN, and one of those things is being a PWO on a submarine. I realise if I say this at AIB they're going to ask me a question about it, so it makes sense to ask you first.
Basically, what do PWOs on submarines do that PWOs on surface fleet ships don't? Would I go through the RNSMS course, or is it at all different? Also, do I get to wear those very nice looking dolphins at the end of it all? :D

Thanks
 
When I was on boats we did'nt have a PWO.
Things may have changed but the organisation was as such;
CO
XO
WEO MEO
DWEO DMEO
TSO TASO SO
NAVS
CASO CBO
There were a number of junior officers with tiltles such as CASO, CBO etc but these were for junior officers still training obviously they had to have some sort of responsibility. I would imagine the PWO role would be shared between the watch leaders TSO and TASO and the XO. Its worth remembering that boats dont have seperate control rooms and bridges so the whole fight, float, manoeuvre thing is ran from the control room where the ships controls are as well as the operation room type things ie soundroom etc.
 
Jones, were the CO and XO PWO/WO at some point though? I was under the impression that a lot of COs were trained as WOs.
 
Yes they would have been warfare officers but because they had gone down the submarine path I doubt they would have had the oppurtunity to do a PWO job (I could be wrong). Sorry when I did my post at this end it was set up as a family tree with the CO at the top.
Don't call me Jones sunshine your not an officer yet :wink: only joking what else you meant to call me last time I was called that was 2000. Jonah from now on. :wink:
 
Ah, having looked at the website again, I would get dolphins. Well, that's the most important question answered :D.
Can't find out what Perishers are though, are they like FOST?
Edit: On further inspection there are rounds in the... Oh wait. On further research I've found that it's a submarine command course. I gather that's further leadership training and testing?
 
Blapto said:
Ah, having looked at the website again, I would get dolphins. Well, that's the most important question answered :D.
Can't find out what Perishers are though, are they like FOST?
Edit: On further inspection there are rounds in the... Oh wait. On further research I've found that it's a submarine command course. I gather that's further leadership training and testing?
Click to expand...

Its the Commanding Officers Qualifying Course (Command Course). Mostly Tactical and how to drive a boat!!!
 
On the early Bombers there was a PWEO
Polaris weapons officer .


Perisher is a course designed to test a first watch officer [XO] and see if he is competent to command a Submarine as a Captain .
If he fails then he is usually removed from the Submarine service due to the advancement prospects being nil if he continues on boats!
 
Greenie said:
On the early Bombers there was a PWEO
Polaris weapons officer .


Perisher is a course designed to test a first watch officer [XO] and see if he is competent to command a Submarine as a Captain .
If he fails then he is usually removed from the Submarine service due to the advancement prospects being nil if he continues on boats!
Click to expand...

That "PWEO" must have been really early. I remember(1971-74) the Polaris Systems Officer (PSO) and his chum the Assistant Polaris Systems Officer (APSO).
Then there was the Marine Engineering Officer (MEO) and his winger the AMEO. TASO, Nav.Officer, Supply Officer, SCO (Comms), who all did OOW duties. I'm assuming we had a WEO and DWEO, but I can't seem to put faces to them. Oh and an MO. XO and.... oh yes, the CO !
 
Sorry Goeff by early bombers I meant the R class.

Yes you are right --I think my first bomber had a PSO and APSO but then the great change of branches came about--again when they did the great move with MEM L and MEM M WEM O etc etc
The PSO became the WEO. the APSO became PWEO and they had a AWEO who did fwd systems /fwd electrics .
Aft Engineering MEO and the black gang stayed as was.

Electrical branch --the most name changed cross threaded branch in the RN.
 
Greenie said:
On the early Bombers there was a PWEO
Polaris weapons officer .


Perisher is a course designed to test a first watch officer [XO] and see if he is competent to command a Submarine as a Captain .
If he fails then he is usually removed from the Submarine service due to the advancement prospects being nil if he continues on boats!
Click to expand...

To be fair, I believe that it is generally accepted that the Perisher course is the best and hardest there is, even the almighty Yanks have started sending some of their people over.

In my day if they failed Perisher they went back to General Service, no options and no return to boats. In extreme circumstances, and I have witnessed this, if a trainee Perisher made a cock up which failed him during the course, the boat surfaced and the MFV came out and took the failed Officer off the boat then and there. I can't even begin to imagine what that must have done to the mans mental state.
 
I can't quite tell if it's a good thing that this sounds like a challenge to me more than anything :twisted:
 
Blapto said:
I'm considering joining as an officer, either WAFU or Warfare (but please don't debate the relative merits here, I get enough on either side from everywhere else!)
In preperation for AIB I'm researching everything I'm interested in doing in the RN, and one of those things is being a PWO on a submarine. I realise if I say this at AIB they're going to ask me a question about it, so it makes sense to ask you first.
Basically, what do PWOs on submarines do that PWOs on surface fleet ships don't? Would I go through the RNSMS course, or is it at all different? Also, do I get to wear those very nice looking dolphins at the end of it all? :D

Thanks
Click to expand...

A watch leader is the SM equivalent of the surface fleet PWO

In essence, both are trained and qualified to 'fight' the ship/SM when it is in defence watches (which is SOP for SMs) on behalf of the CO/XO

Depending on the situation they have delegated authority to do all sorts of things - normally they do not initiate offensive action though

The tasks are similar as they require the same skill sets but of course the environment is different and PWOs do some things (eg helicopter ops/anti air warfare) that SM WLs don't and vice versa. In particular there are SM-specific safety issues that the surface ship PWO would not need to deal with

To be a WL you need to be an experienced SMer, hence PWOs almost invariably do not become WLs. Transfers in the other direction are reasonably common as most SMs can change to surface ships (they will have served on them as junior officers ) and as I said before the skill sets are similar.

Perisher failures are far from being incompetent; it is a very tough qualification. Anyone selected for Perisher is likely to make a fine PWO - that is the route most who don't pass choose to follow and promotion [and command] prosects once qualified are very good (after all they were good promotion prospects to get on the Perisher in the first place)

So if you want to be an SM 'PWO' [and it is the only route to the Perisher and SM command], you must go into submarines at the earliest opportunity

Good luck at the AIB
 
As a future sm warfare officer you will be expected to begin your career as a skimmer where you will learn basic navigation and officer skills etc. When you have completed your Specialist Fleet Time (around 18 months into your time in the Navy) you will transfer to the SM fleet and train at HMS Raleigh where the new submarine school is. From here you will join a boat to get your BSQ and Dolphins under your belt as a Junior Warfare Officer (CBO, CASSO, CORRO) then progress your career upto the dizzy heights of watch leader.
 

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