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Officer Recruitment - new direct entry policy

Reservist-Monkey said:
Now, FW, I KNOW you've worked with Subbies for whom that doesn't apply!

Some people do listen to their senior rates, Chiefs and POs when they're S/Lts. They even buy them the odd beer.

Or make them the odd coffee in a RSIGS CP? :)

On this occasion, 3 Lts, 1 S/Lt, 1 CPO and 1 PO took part in a joint exercise - the Subby looked at the massed ranks of dark blue personnel ranged before him and said: "I can see how this is going to work: 3 Lts, me a subby, 1 Chief and a PO; the chain of command is quite clear - how do you like your coffee chief?".

Granted not all subbies are power crazed martinets, but there are some (too many) that are...... if the cap fits..... :twisted:
 
Hasn't this thread missed one vital point, which is civilian experience?

I'm applying to (re)join the RNR via DEO and hope that some of my leadership and management skills from my day job might be useful - primarily by way of the fact that I line manage people old enough to be my Dad who are very experienced in their roles. Simply because I manage / lead them doesn't make me exempt from making them a coffee or making a decision based on listening to and acting on their advice - something I do every day because you can't learn experience and only a fool ignores it when it's offered.

For me at least, it really has nothing at all to do with "power", surely the DEO scheme exists so that the RNR can access a source of skilled and practiced civilian managers and leaders and utilise these skills straight away in the same way as they do with medical skills etc. Such civilian leaders don't wear uniforms which highlight hierarchy and don't work in disciplined services, therefore respect and willingness to be lead have to be earned every day and there is little in the way to stop someone you line-manage making your job very hard if you don't.

Just as a foot-note, would it not be better to judge each individual on merit? That's what I would ask for, and what I would give.
 
u8dmtm said:
Hasn't this thread missed one vital point, which is civilian experience?

I'm applying to (re)join the RNR via DEO and hope that some of my leadership and management skills from my day job might be useful - primarily by way of the fact that I line manage people old enough to be my Dad who are very experienced in their roles. Simply because I manage / lead them doesn't make me exempt from making them a coffee or making a decision based on listening to and acting on their advice - something I do every day because you can't learn experience and only a fool ignores it when it's offered.

For me at least, it really has nothing at all to do with "power", surely the DEO scheme exists so that the RNR can access a source of skilled and practiced civilian managers and leaders and utilise these skills straight away in the same way as they do with medical skills etc. Such civilian leaders don't wear uniforms which highlight hierarchy and don't work in disciplined services, therefore respect and willingness to be lead have to be earned every day and there is little in the way to stop someone you line-manage making your job very hard if you don't.

Agreed, however, take it from me, in the last 22 years I have witnessed some extremely arrogant members of the wardroom who were not leaders in any sense of the word, either in a military or civilian environment; its these people that my criticisms are aimed at. I accept that there are also a number of individuals who are able to slot into the wardroom on day 1 and who know how to deal with JRs and SRs. Taking nothing away from these individuals, what will be missing in the RNR environment will be the fact that these people will not be seen to have the shared experience that is part of the RN JO training and that used to be an integral element in the old 10MCM days.

u8dmtm said:
Just as a foot-note, would it not be better to judge each individual on merit? That's what I would ask for, and what I would give.

Agreed - my comments are generalisations, and as I've said here before. all generalisations tend to be wrong all of the time :)
 
Whether they join via NE or go direct to the Wardroom, it must be remembered that its is incumbent upon the rest of the Officers to ensure that S/Lts are properly trained and that includes leadership and the right attitude to the value and experience of the SRs and JRs they serve with.

And personally I have absolutely no problem with a SR or Killick putting a JO in their place, IF they need to.

Its not what you wear on your sleeve or shoulder, its how you use it. Teamwork is vital in just about everything we do and every member of the team is vital too. There is no place for arrogance, only professionalism.
 
navalgazer said:
Firefawkes
Hope it's not too late, but the Direct Entry System details are out, and the system is essentially AFCO managed.
Entrants will have nothing to do with the RNR prior to AIB. After a pass at AIB they are Acting Sub Lt and go straight to the Wardroom.

Thanks for that Navalgazer. :)

I’m pleased to see that it is consistent with what I’ve been told so far by the AFCO. However, these few details appear to be the sum total of the information currently available on Direct Entry within the RNR! Any other queries I have posed to the AFCO have been met with ‘It’s a new scheme - we don’t know much about it’, and “You’ll need to ask at your unitâ€. This would be fine if my unit had all the details, but they don’t! I know that DEO was only introduced at the start of August, but what is the point of launching a new scheme before the AFCOs and RTUs have been given any details about it and why, 3 months after the launch, is there still a lack of information? :roll:

I now have my dates for AIB, so we’ll see what happens after that!
 
u8dmtm said:
Hasn't this thread missed one vital point, which is civilian experience?

I agree that this is an element, but we have had some fresh from uni types with no real world experience but an AIB pass and therefore a stripe; as people are thrown into the mix without having to do BRNC immediately, they can lack all the basic skills.
 
firefawkes said:
navalgazer said:
Firefawkes
Hope it's not too late, but the Direct Entry System details are out, and the system is essentially AFCO managed.
Entrants will have nothing to do with the RNR prior to AIB. After a pass at AIB they are Acting Sub Lt and go straight to the Wardroom.

Thanks for that Navalgazer. :)

I’m pleased to see that it is consistent with what I’ve been told so far by the AFCO. However, these few details appear to be the sum total of the information currently available on Direct Entry within the RNR! Any other queries I have posed to the AFCO have been met with ‘It’s a new scheme - we don’t know much about it’, and “You’ll need to ask at your unitâ€. This would be fine if my unit had all the details, but they don’t! I know that DEO was only introduced at the start of August, but what is the point of launching a new scheme before the AFCOs and RTUs have been given any details about it and why, 3 months after the launch, is there still a lack of information? :roll:

I now have my dates for AIB, so we’ll see what happens after that!

Ah Firefawkes, it was ever thus. Someone in the good ideas club obvious put the plan out before doing the staffwork.

Good luck on your AIB, get the beers in when you pass.

M(R)
 
firefawkes said:
navalgazer said:
Firefawkes
Hope it's not too late, but the Direct Entry System details are out, and the system is essentially AFCO managed.
Entrants will have nothing to do with the RNR prior to AIB. After a pass at AIB they are Acting Sub Lt and go straight to the Wardroom.

Thanks for that Navalgazer. :)

I’m pleased to see that it is consistent with what I’ve been told so far by the AFCO. However, these few details appear to be the sum total of the information currently available on Direct Entry within the RNR! Any other queries I have posed to the AFCO have been met with ‘It’s a new scheme - we don’t know much about it’, and “You’ll need to ask at your unitâ€. This would be fine if my unit had all the details, but they don’t! I know that DEO was only introduced at the start of August, but what is the point of launching a new scheme before the AFCOs and RTUs have been given any details about it and why, 3 months after the launch, is there still a lack of information? :roll:


The DE Officer has been launhed and is about encouraging people to join the RNR who want to be officers. :twisted:

The main point is that these potential people are not part of the RNR but outside until they complete and pass and AIB. They will be given encouragement and help. It is to try and stop the "snotty nose officer type" lording over all other ratings while they are part of the CC/CW team. It then will allow AB's to get experience in leading people for the LS rate.

If people join the RNR it is because they want to give a committment to the navy, regardless of rank or rate. It is then up to the divisional system to encourage them to reach their potential either SR or Officer. :?

From a personal point of view, 10 years in lower decks was a good grounding before moveing to the dark side. :eek:

The RNR is what you want to make it and you should always strive for the rank or rate you want or should be at!! All these people who should be in senior posts, but are happy being an AB, are wasting their talent and are not fulfiling their potential or giving their ALL to the Navy.

Go for your AIB, enjoy and pass well. Come and join the dark side and have fun in the wardroom :D






I now have my dates for AIB, so we’ll see what happens after that!
 
Hey,

Just a quick question for those of you in the know... if I passed an AIB about three years ago and am considering a transfer from green to dark blue would I be eligble to go through this program without having to resit AIB?

All help appreciated,

W_B

Edit: - to correct typing error
 
Dangermouse said:
Whether they join via NE or go direct to the Wardroom, it must be remembered that its is incumbent upon the rest of the Officers to ensure that S/Lts are properly trained and that includes leadership and the right attitude to the value and experience of the SRs and JRs they serve with.

And personally I have absolutely no problem with a SR or Killick putting a JO in their place, IF they need to.

Its not what you wear on your sleeve or shoulder, its how you use it. Teamwork is vital in just about everything we do and every member of the team is vital too. There is no place for arrogance, only professionalism.

Spot on DM. Too often ASLT's are allowed to think they have made it on passing AIB.

Best bit of advice I heard given to a new Acting subbie was to compare daily rates of pay as a real indicator as to where their position in life was.

IMHO:
If we are to have direct entry officers, gold stripes should only be handed out after successfully passing a NE course at BRNC. i.e. Complete NE in unit as an OC, pass AIB, go to BRNC as an OC. if successful, pass out at Saturday divisions as an ASLT. Return to unit, start task book. If they fail-recommended to remain as a JR or binned.

At the same time Upper Yardies should only be able to go CW at minimum AB1 level, thus allowing JR's to focus on initial training and still being deployable if they fail AIB.
 
who_blue said:
Just a quick question for those of you in the know... if I passed an AIB about three years ago and am considering a transfer from green to dark blue would I be eligble to go through this program without having to resit AIB?

If you are already commissioned you don't need to sit AIB. If not you will have to resit.
 
hammockhead said:
who_blue said:
Just a quick question for those of you in the know... if I passed an AIB about three years ago and am considering a transfer from green to dark blue would I be eligble to go through this program without having to resit AIB?

If you are already commissioned you don't need to sit AIB. If not you will have to resit.

Oh dear, has it changed much since 2002/3?
 
Afraid it has. Can't remember the exact changes but I do know that the fitness test is in there somewhere.

Someone else who has done it recently can provide a better outline otherwise I will have a word with a couple of the lads at my unit who have recently sat it.

LTP
 
Regarding the transfer of civilian management skills to the wardroom, I've sent over thirty people to AIB in the past four years, and one of the biggest lessons I learnt is that there was no correlation between civilian management ability and AIB pass rate.

Most of the time all we have on here is anecdotal evidence, which is not without worth, but I've got enough hard numerical scores and AIB reports to point to a definite lack of correlation. In the tests of leadership ability in the AIB, I've had company directors bomb out completely and kids from school keep it together like Jack Bauer on fire, and the whole range inbetween.
 
Morning Shippers & Shackles,

I'm shiney brand new to Rum Ration, greetings to one and all.

I'm kinda in the same boat as firefawkes here. I've been out the mob for more years than I care to think about, served as a Pinkie on the Lowestoft and the Yarmouth (Crazy Y), and for the last few years been toying with the idea of joining the RNR. As usual real life tends to get in the way of all the best laid plans, what with new job, marriage, moving house, I never really got round to following it through. Things have settled down now and the time feels right to look into it again. I've turned 40 this year and I know if I don't do it now I probably never will. I worry that my 'maturing years' might favour against me.

The advice I've seen so far, in this thread and others, has proved to be useful and I appreciate all your frank and honest input. Especially on the mess-deck/wardroom discussions.

Hope to dit with more of you soonest.
 

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