Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to join our community
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site, connect with other members through your own private inbox and will receive smaller adverts!

Officer Recruitment - new direct entry policy

hammockhead said:
Personally, I have no problems with a NE being classed as a JR and using the JR's mess until he/she has passes Dartmouth and receives their commission. This period gives future officers a valuable insight into life as a JR which can be vital experience in their development as an officer.

The separation of Officer Candidate NEs from the JRs Mess is treating the symptoms of the problem rather than the root cause - if these people piss off the existing JRs then perhaps the policy ought to be looking more at why they cause problems rather than separating them from the JRs - in my experience, the NEs who pissed off ratings did so as a result of their attitudes and went on to become abysmal officers.

I'm not sure there was anything wrong with them as individuals, but the word I get from those trying to run the JR's mess is that it is very disheartening to get people constantly passing through the mess who have no intention of staying.

Given that the NE course is about a year long I don't regard NEs as "transient" members - a year is more than long enough for any NE, officer candidate or otherwise, to get involved in the mess and make a success of their time as mess members. Why should the fact that someone is going to be in a mess "only a year" affect the way the mess is run? Personally, I'd be glad of a couple of extra people in any mess for a month or two as long as they contribute to mess life. I can think of several examples from my own RNR career where people have joined a mess and it has been apparent that they would not be staying in the mess for too long - e.g. transfer from another unit ready in all respects for second hook which will arrive in 6 months time - how is this different from a NE who wants to join the wardroom?

Another point to consider; NE Bloggs joins as an officer candidate, wears white tabs, completes Raleigh and is a member of the wardroom. For one reason or another NE Bloggs fails the AIB - what happens then?

I still think its better for the direct entry officer candidiates to experience the JRs mess and also would permit people with a less than satisfactory AIB to continue in the RNR without too much difficulty or embarassment.
 
FlagWagger said:
Another point to consider; NE Bloggs joins as an officer candidate, wears white tabs, completes Raleigh and is a member of the wardroom. For one reason or another NE Bloggs fails the AIB - what happens then?

I'd be surprised if we accepted any officer NEs without making them pass AIB first. This is what happens in the regular service, and this is what the URNU lot have always had to do to join as RNR officers.
 
hammockhead said:
FlagWagger said:
Another point to consider; NE Bloggs joins as an officer candidate, wears white tabs, completes Raleigh and is a member of the wardroom. For one reason or another NE Bloggs fails the AIB - what happens then?

I'd be surprised if we accepted any officer NEs without making them pass AIB first. This is what happens in the regular service, and this is what the URNU lot have always had to do to join as RNR officers.

On the assumption that the NE will have passed the AIB before joining, then yes the wardroom is the right place for them. If however, the current process where the AIB occurs at some point after joining, then they should start in the JRs mess.
 
GSSR_Vvd said:
WarMonger said:
Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know

Well it sure seems to me that probablyabout 70% of new entry want to be officers at some point so the SR's push for them to take leadership and develop as a future officer. [\quote]

i have to agree with GSSR Vvd my unit is exactly the same - although whent he NE's come over to get trained in their specialisation all of a sudden officers who you don't normally see, suddenly appear out of the woodwork asking any suitable CW's, who's got what qualifications and selling the wardroom and dismissing the JRs, as a SR I always answer any questions the NEs ask.. truthfully.......... not what the officers might want to hear but at least they know where i stand..... I thought it took years to train to be an ******** apparently thats a myth ! you can fastrack !!
 
WarMonger said:
Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know..???

yeah but what about the shortage of L/Hs and SRs - i've stated this in another thread don't see any fastrack policy for them...different rules !!

There will be loads of three badge ABs running about in a few years time until the goalposts stop moving !
 
I am not sure why so many people seem taken aback by any of this, it was ever thus. I can start with list 1 and Docs, they do NE, skip Raleigh(?), and move straight to the WR.

In the past there was direct entry officers, went sometime in the 90s IIRC. Why should we 'waste' training resources in putting someone into a branch when it's clear that's not the route they're going to take.

I would suggest that it may possibly reduce some of the current recruiting issues to the wardroom and maybe reduce the drive to take all the good ratings to the WR thus reducing potential numbers of SRs, as some of you have alledged.

Just my tuppence.
 
Firefawkes
Hope it's not too late, but the Direct Entry System details are out, and the system is essentially AFCO managed.
Entrants will have nothing to do with the RNR prior to AIB. After a pass at AIB they are Acting Sub Lt and go straight to the Wardroom.
 
The unfortunate thing is that most seasoned hands then scoff at them because they have no naval knowledge...SLUTs are generally fair game but the system doesn't help them!
 
veryparttimer said:
The unfortunate thing is that most seasoned hands then scoff at them because they have no naval knowledge...SLUTs are generally fair game but the system doesn't help them!

Not necessarily - ignorance of naval knowledge is at the start of your career is understandable and can be forgiven. What can't be forgiven, however, is when a direct entry officer comes in of the streets and starts throwing his/her weight around by virture of their gold lace and commission. Its the combination of a lack of naval knowledge coupled with abysmal leadership that causes problems.
 
I was implying leadership in that. The AIB does pass some people who you would only follow out of curiosity, but beacuse little (if any) time is spent on the lower deck the two combine to cause problems. My belief (and I will probably get pilloried for it!) is that all JOs should spend time on the lower deck and contribute to mess life as only then will they understand the different views of and between ranks and rates and act accordingly.
 
veryparttimer said:
I was implying leadership in that. The AIB does pass some people who you would only follow out of curiosity, but beacuse little (if any) time is spent on the lower deck the two combine to cause problems. My belief (and I will probably get pilloried for it!) is that all JOs should spend time on the lower deck and contribute to mess life as only then will they understand the different views of and between ranks and rates and act accordingly.

You shouldnt get pillaried, because its a bloody good idea one that I have always thought would add strength to JO's. For the first couple of years they should intergrate with the Junior Rates rather than being hastenend to the surreal world of the wardrobe....for those with any knowledge of Star Trek I have always likened the wardroom to a BORG mothership...where halfwitted SLUTs are added to the collective to bolster its general lack of common sense and grip on reality..!!!

However when it comes to the wardroom remember...RESISTANCE IS GENERALLY FUTILE!!!
 
WarMonger said:
You shouldnt get pillaried, because its a bloody good idea one that I have always thought would add strength to JO's. For the first couple of years they should intergrate with the Junior Rates rather than being hastenend to the surreal world of the wardrobe....

Isnt this an area of differnce between the RN and the RNR. In the RN, don't OUTs go to sea on their Initial Sea Training with no officer status? While in the RNR, it is possible to enter the hallowed portals of the wardroom without ever having seen the "shitty end of the stick" for real. Spending NE training in the JRs mess is not enough, IMHO.

WarMonger said:
....for those with any knowledge of Star Trek I have always likened the wardroom to a BORG mothership...where halfwitted SLUTs are added to the collective to bolster its general lack of common sense and grip on reality..!!!

However when it comes to the wardroom remember...RESISTANCE IS GENERALLY FUTILE!!!

:) So when are GSSR getting their personal issue phasers then?
 
I don’t think there is a problem with an OC or JO being part of the Wardroom from day one, but it is important that they work with and do some training with the JRs and others. That mix of practical experience, seeing different tasks from different angles and being able to put yourself in someone else’s position when you are making decisions later on in life is extremely valuable. The MN Officer Cadet system usually has a Deck Cadet spending his/her first sea phase or first trip working on deck with the Bosun/ABs before understudying the Officers later on in training. No system is perfect but it’s worked well for a long time. Also I don’t think Direct Entry Candidates should be put forward for an AIB before they are properly prepared and have some experience of the RNR from being an OC.
 
navs said:
I don’t think there is a problem with an OC or JO being part of the Wardroom from day one, but it is important that they work with and do some training with the JRs and others. That mix of practical experience, seeing different tasks from different angles and being able to put yourself in someone else’s position when you are making decisions later on in life is extremely valuable.

The experience you talk of is invalvuable in knocking the corners off "difficult" individuals, i.e. those who put on air and graces from day 1 and unwilling to consider the viewpoint of the JR or experience of the SR.

Sadly the RNR cannot offer the necessary mix of experience within a unit and this results in all S/Lts being tarred with the same brush, i.e. in general they're all immature, power-crazy, admirals-in-waiting who look down on everyone outside the wardroom!

navs said:
The MN Officer Cadet system usually has a Deck Cadet spending his/her first sea phase or first trip working on deck with the Bosun/ABs before understudying the Officers later on in training. No system is perfect but it’s worked well for a long time. Also I don’t think Direct Entry Candidates should be put forward for an AIB before they are properly prepared and have some experience of the RNR from being an OC.

When I started in engineering, I spent a fair amount of time on the factory floor, working alongside the people who would subsequently be working for me, albeit indirectly. This practial based experience gave me many useful lessons that I'd never get from school or college.

A few years ago I had a junior engineer join my team straight from college - he'd graduated top of his course yet had never ever worked in engineering before joining my team; in all honesty he was a total nightmare who believed that I was privileged to be his manager and that because he was so brilliant academically he could immediately be regarded as a fully qualified professional engineer capable of making major decisions without any further training or experience!

While this case was an extreme example, I'm afraid I've come across analogous people within the RNR. As has been said, the AIB is not perfect -unfortunately, the RNR does not provide enough multi-rank/rate practical environments to allow the new JOs to gain exposure to the full breadth of the naval service.
 
Now, FW, I KNOW you've worked with Subbies for whom that doesn't apply!

Some people do listen to their senior rates, Chiefs and POs when they're S/Lts. They even buy them the odd beer.
 

Latest Threads

Top