Officer Recruitment - new direct entry policy

[firefawkes]

[align=justify]I’m currently in the latter stages of joining the RNR – just have PJFT and security clearance to go before I can join my unit.

However, the AFCO called today to let me know that as of 4 Aug, the RNR officer recruitment policy has changed, allowing direct entry. AFCO didn’t have any further info as the Lt. in charge of officer recruitment works between 4 different offices and won’t be in Glasgow for nearly a fortnight.

Just wondered if anyone had any up-to-date info on this? [/align]

 

[dunkers]

Only thing I know is that it's been in the pipeline for about a year or so. However I would seriously recommend joining as a rating first, then going for officer. Gives you a chance to find your feet first.

 

[firefawkes]

Only thing I know is that it's been in the pipeline for about a year or so. However I would seriously recommend joining as a rating first, then going for officer. Gives you a chance to find your feet first.

Thanks for that Dunkers. Know exactly where you're coming from, and I am thinking very carefully about my options. However, time is not on my side as I'm coming to this a little later in life than most, and need to do AIB before I'm 40. I would be kicking myself if I pass up this opportunity and then don't get another shot at it.

Will be easier to make a decision once I know exactly what this new "scheme" entails.

 

[mndc]

It is possible to join direct as an officer under the old rules if you are ex RN snco or officer, or other services ex officer or a merchant navy deck officer or MN deck officer cadet (as in my case).

 

[WarMonger]

Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know..???

 

[all_purple_now]

Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know..???

I assure you it's not like that at my unit.

APN

 

[WarMonger]

I assure you it's not like that at my unit.

APN

I would be interested to know is that due to recruits generally not seeing it as a way forward or down to less emphasis placed on it by recruiters, new entry bods and permanent staff.!

 

[beer_bosun]

Only thing I know is that it's been in the pipeline for about a year or so. However I would seriously recommend joining as a rating first, then going for officer. Gives you a chance to find your feet first.

No please, if you are wishing to be a grunter, please do go straight to the wardroom and let us ratings deal with career ratings rather than have some pretentious twit come in lording it around and then sodding off to the other place.

I find it annoying when you have a junior junior rating come in knowing they are going to end up in the wardrobe and hence do nothing to support the Mess.

{Rant over} - apologies to any offended in advance.

 

[firefawkes]

No please, if you are wishing to be a grunter, please do go straight to the wardroom and let us ratings deal with career ratings rather than have some pretentious twit come in lording it around and then sodding off to the other place.

I find it annoying when you have a junior junior rating come in knowing they are going to end up in the wardrobe and hence do nothing to support the Mess.

{Rant over} - apologies to any offended in advance.

Thank you for your words of "encouragement" beer_bosun. :roll:

I think you'll find that my original post simply asked if anyone had any information about the scheme. I also stated that after applying to join (as a rating), the AFCO contacted ME about direct entry – NOT the other way around. I am enthusiastic, hardworking and committed, and as mentioned before on this thread, I am joining the RNR a lot later in life than most. I am therefore not a ‘wet-behind-the ears' school leaver, or fresh out of uni, but am a 'mature' new entry with a successful civilian career, currently holding a managerial position. This, I assume, is part of the reason why the AFCO approached me as a suitable candidate for this new scheme. In spite of your comments, I am really looking forward to joining my unit and hope that I will be an asset to the RNR in whatever capacity those more senior to me deem most appropriate, whether this is as a rating or as an officer.

It is NOT particularly helpful to brand an enthusiastic newcomer as a “pretentious twit†who will be “lording it aroundâ€, when elsewhere on this forum I keep reading about recruitment and retention problems within the RNR!!!

I registered with Rum Ration in March and although I have not posted very much (due to not feeling qualified to do so until I had actually joined), I have been an avid reader of the forums. In general, I have been extremely impressed with the genuine help, support and advice offered to all “newbies†regardless of how silly the question, or how many times it has been asked before. The legendary camaraderie of the matelot even extends to faceless strangers on a website! However, as with everything in life, there are exceptions, and you would appear to fall into this category.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, which I can only assume has been influenced by negative experiences at your own unit, but I do feel that on this thread, this was an entirely unprovoked rant.

Now, would you like me to pick up your teddy and put it back in the pram beside you, or would you prefer to sulk for a bit longer?

 

[Troutbridge]

Firefawkes,

You appear to be just the kind of person the naval service needs. Clearly the Glasgow AFCO staff identified your potential; suggest you pick up the ball and run with it. The AIB will determine whether or not you are suited to commence Officer training. Should you not make it ask if you are considered suitable for non-commissioned entry. I have a number of colleagues whom did not receive a recommend from the AIB and have subsequently done very well in the Ratings Corps, becoming respected leaders in their chosen fields.

Best of luck.

Trouters

 

[beer_bosun]

No please, if you are wishing to be a grunter, please do go straight to the wardroom and let us ratings deal with career ratings rather than have some pretentious twit come in lording it around and then sodding off to the other place.

I find it annoying when you have a junior junior rating come in knowing they are going to end up in the wardrobe and hence do nothing to support the Mess.

{Rant over} - apologies to any offended in advance.

Thank you for your words of "encouragement" beer_bosun. :roll:

I think you'll find that my original post simply asked if anyone had any information about the scheme. I also stated that after applying to join (as a rating), the AFCO contacted ME about direct entry – NOT the other way around. I am enthusiastic, hardworking and committed, and as mentioned before on this thread, I am joining the RNR a lot later in life than most. I am therefore not a ‘wet-behind-the ears' school leaver, or fresh out of uni, but am a 'mature' new entry with a successful civilian career, currently holding a managerial position. This, I assume, is part of the reason why the AFCO approached me as a suitable candidate for this new scheme. In spite of your comments, I am really looking forward to joining my unit and hope that I will be an asset to the RNR in whatever capacity those more senior to me deem most appropriate, whether this is as a rating or as an officer.

It is NOT particularly helpful to brand an enthusiastic newcomer as a “pretentious twit†who will be “lording it aroundâ€, when elsewhere on this forum I keep reading about recruitment and retention problems within the RNR!!!

I registered with Rum Ration in March and although I have not posted very much (due to not feeling qualified to do so until I had actually joined), I have been an avid reader of the forums. In general, I have been extremely impressed with the genuine help, support and advice offered to all “newbies†regardless of how silly the question, or how many times it has been asked before. The legendary camaraderie of the matelot even extends to faceless strangers on a website! However, as with everything in life, there are exceptions, and you would appear to fall into this category.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, which I can only assume has been influenced by negative experiences at your own unit, but I do feel that on this thread, this was an entirely unprovoked rant.

Now, would you like me to pick up your teddy and put it back in the pram beside you, or would you prefer to sulk for a bit longer?

As a discussion board you should expect some off the cuff and sometimes controversial (i.e. you may not like what you read) comments.

Please do join, hope we meet one day. But if you do join as a rating with the intention of going up, support the lower lads while you are there and not just to gain brownie points.

Oh and yes, my comments have been drawn on my frequent negative experiences of pretentious new entries (sic twits) that end up as officers - sadly the good officers are few and far between.

I don't have a pram, cutbacks you see, but my rattle is back in my buggy.

 

[GSSR_Vvd]

Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know..???

Well it sure seems to me that probablyabout 70% of new entry want to be officers at some point so the SR's push for them to take leadership and develop as a future officer.

It has happened to me where a fellow new entry expressed a want for being an officer where as i was happy to enjoy my time as a JR but still want to move to SR but did not want to become an officer straight away. The person who expressed a wish to be an officer was given more oppertunities to lead teams than myself.

Question: How come you dont seem to be able to progress unless you want to be an officer?

There have been numerous occasions where JR's in the RNR have basically done the RNR officer's job due to their inabbility to get stuck in wearing a blues!

 

[hammockhead]

From what I was hearing under the new scheme, the direct officer NEs will do basic at Raleigh as per normal and then do Dartmouth, but will mess in the wardroom from the word go. That way we avoid the problem of people passing through the JRs mess who have no intention of staying there and pissing off JRs who have to deal with them.

 

[FlagWagger]

From what I was hearing under the new scheme, the direct officer NEs will do basic at Raleigh as per normal and then do Dartmouth, but will mess in the wardroom from the word go. That way we avoid the problem of people passing through the JRs mess who have no intention of staying there and pissing off JRs who have to deal with them.

I assume that this means unit Wardroom from day 1 as a NE, but at Raleigh they'd be classed as the same as everyone else on the NE course. Personally, this doesn't sound well thought out at all - what would the status of that person be on visiting other units or RN establishments?

Personally, I have no problems with a NE being classed as a JR and using the JR's mess until he/she has passes Dartmouth and receives their commission. This period gives future officers a valuable insight into life as a JR which can be vital experience in their development as an officer.

The separation of Officer Candidate NEs from the JRs Mess is treating the symptoms of the problem rather than the root cause - if these people piss off the existing JRs then perhaps the policy ought to be looking more at why they cause problems rather than separating them from the JRs - in my experience, the NEs who pissed off ratings did so as a result of their attitudes and went on to become abysmal officers.

In my experience, the most damaging (to the RNR specialisations) type of officer recruit is the sort who spends a year or two as a JR tying up instructors' time getting onto the trained strength and then joins the wardroom in a totally different specialisation. The RNR should encourage people to become officers before they reach TS and better promote the SUY scheme to provide advancement routes for the current ratings corps.

 

[hammockhead]

I assume that this means unit Wardroom from day 1 as a NE, but at Raleigh they'd be classed as the same as everyone else on the NE course. Personally, this doesn't sound well thought out at all - what would the status of that person be on visiting other units or RN establishments?

IIRC they were going to wear white tabs and be treated like pre-IST officer cadets.

Personally, I have no problems with a NE being classed as a JR and using the JR's mess until he/she has passes Dartmouth and receives their commission. This period gives future officers a valuable insight into life as a JR which can be vital experience in their development as an officer.

The separation of Officer Candidate NEs from the JRs Mess is treating the symptoms of the problem rather than the root cause - if these people piss off the existing JRs then perhaps the policy ought to be looking more at why they cause problems rather than separating them from the JRs - in my experience, the NEs who pissed off ratings did so as a result of their attitudes and went on to become abysmal officers.

I'm not sure there was anything wrong with them as individuals, but the word I get from those trying to run the JR's mess is that it is very disheartening to get people constantly passing through the mess who have no intention of staying.

In my experience, the most damaging (to the RNR specialisations) type of officer recruit is the sort who spends a year or two as a JR tying up instructors' time getting onto the trained strength and then joins the wardroom in a totally different specialisation. The RNR should encourage people to become officers before they reach TS and better promote the SUY scheme to provide advancement routes for the current ratings corps.

I think this is what they are trying to do.

 

[FlagWagger]

Personally, I have no problems with a NE being classed as a JR and using the JR's mess until he/she has passes Dartmouth and receives their commission. This period gives future officers a valuable insight into life as a JR which can be vital experience in their development as an officer.

The separation of Officer Candidate NEs from the JRs Mess is treating the symptoms of the problem rather than the root cause - if these people piss off the existing JRs then perhaps the policy ought to be looking more at why they cause problems rather than separating them from the JRs - in my experience, the NEs who pissed off ratings did so as a result of their attitudes and went on to become abysmal officers.

I'm not sure there was anything wrong with them as individuals, but the word I get from those trying to run the JR's mess is that it is very disheartening to get people constantly passing through the mess who have no intention of staying.

Given that the NE course is about a year long I don't regard NEs as "transient" members - a year is more than long enough for any NE, officer candidate or otherwise, to get involved in the mess and make a success of their time as mess members. Why should the fact that someone is going to be in a mess "only a year" affect the way the mess is run? Personally, I'd be glad of a couple of extra people in any mess for a month or two as long as they contribute to mess life. I can think of several examples from my own RNR career where people have joined a mess and it has been apparent that they would not be staying in the mess for too long - e.g. transfer from another unit ready in all respects for second hook which will arrive in 6 months time - how is this different from a NE who wants to join the wardroom?

Another point to consider; NE Bloggs joins as an officer candidate, wears white tabs, completes Raleigh and is a member of the wardroom. For one reason or another NE Bloggs fails the AIB - what happens then?

I still think its better for the direct entry officer candidiates to experience the JRs mess and also would permit people with a less than satisfactory AIB to continue in the RNR without too much difficulty or embarassment.

 

[hammockhead]

Another point to consider; NE Bloggs joins as an officer candidate, wears white tabs, completes Raleigh and is a member of the wardroom. For one reason or another NE Bloggs fails the AIB - what happens then?

I'd be surprised if we accepted any officer NEs without making them pass AIB first. This is what happens in the regular service, and this is what the URNU lot have always had to do to join as RNR officers.

 

[FlagWagger]

Another point to consider; NE Bloggs joins as an officer candidate, wears white tabs, completes Raleigh and is a member of the wardroom. For one reason or another NE Bloggs fails the AIB - what happens then?

I'd be surprised if we accepted any officer NEs without making them pass AIB first. This is what happens in the regular service, and this is what the URNU lot have always had to do to join as RNR officers.

On the assumption that the NE will have passed the AIB before joining, then yes the wardroom is the right place for them. If however, the current process where the AIB occurs at some point after joining, then they should start in the JRs mess.

 

[sinbad]

Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know

Well it sure seems to me that probablyabout 70% of new entry want to be officers at some point so the SR's push for them to take leadership and develop as a future officer. [\quote]

i have to agree with GSSR Vvd my unit is exactly the same - although whent he NE's come over to get trained in their specialisation all of a sudden officers who you don't normally see, suddenly appear out of the woodwork asking any suitable CW's, who's got what qualifications and selling the wardroom and dismissing the JRs, as a SR I always answer any questions the NEs ask.. truthfully.......... not what the officers might want to hear but at least they know where i stand..... I thought it took years to train to be an ******** apparently thats a myth ! you can fastrack !!

 

[sinbad]

Whilst on the subject of direct entry officers....is the RNR short of officers on the basis that every single recruit that seems to walk through our doors ends up as a POC....Is this repeated at other units would be interested to know..???

yeah but what about the shortage of L/Hs and SRs - i've stated this in another thread don't see any fastrack policy for them...different rules !!

There will be loads of three badge ABs running about in a few years time until the goalposts stop moving !