Notice in = no submarine pay/nuclear pay.

Discussion in 'Submariners' started by DAFC10, Jan 10, 2012.

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  1. What are peoples thoughts on the rule that if you submit your years notice you get half submarine pay and from April 1st this year you get no submarine pay or nuclear pap. Yet are still expected to go to sea and do the same job for less.

    I have put my notice in, currently on a boat as a trainee wreaker L, go to sea soon, expected to re-qual BSQ and fwd as a wreaker.
    Why should I go to sea and qualify if I'm not being paid for it. I knew the rules before I put my notice in and accept it but like many others disagree with it.

    I believe this applies to all the specialist pay awarded to all branches. Do pilots still have to fly if their not getting flying pay? Does anyone know the legal standpoint on this?
  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Have to say I could understand it if you were not seagoing perhaps, but if in a seagoing billet doing a job that requires that specialist skill then it may well bear having a shufty at employment law on the issue, not that I would advocate a litigation mentality.

    The service often appear to dream-up their own rules in the "good ideas club" when it comes to contracts, pay & allowances and from my own experience, the only reason they get away with it is because no-one has legally challenged it.

    Best of luck.
  3. Simple - don't put your notice in. OR do so when it suits you, and man-up with the consequences.

    You haven't been seen off, it's extra money to retain you and you haven't been retained. It's almost like you're a skimmer....
  4. I'm sure the respective pay manual will be clear on the rules pertaining to the matter of retention of specialist pay.

    A trip to the pay office may prove informative, may not be what you want but at least it will be from the horses mouth - so to speak.
  5. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Ah, comprende.

    I thought SP(M) was still classed as "extra knowledge" pay, I understand the Cat A & B pay aspect. Whilst the reasons for the pay have been changed, have to say I sympathise with the morality issue & it seems rather "sour grapes" to reduce someone's take-home pay because they exercise their right to leave. (I was never in receipt of any additional pay, but don't begrudge those who have earned it).

    The funny thing about people leaving the service is that some seem to take it as a personal slur if someone opts-out in training after four weeks or submits their notice to quit regardless of the fact it is their right within the bounds of their contract.
  6. Yep the retention argument is the one the MEO said to me. Notice in, not retaining you so no submarine pay/nuclear pay. When did the reason for submarine pay change from knowledge/conditions pay which I hear from older submariners to retention pay. Just for the record I'm not a sea dodger or trying to wriggle out of going to sea, just raising the question.
  7. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I'll think you'll find that it's always been retention pay, it's the SM SErvice who like to think its knowledge pay.....
  8. When I first joined boats the old and bold called it "danger money", probably to add that little bit extra to it whilst others called it knowledge pay whereas, as has already been stated, it's retention pay. You used to get S/M pay halfway during boats course once you'd done the tank, this was changed to when you got your Dolphins as people were milking the system.

    Is losing the pay fair when your still at sea, to you probably not (your not the first, neither will you be the last) but it is in the terms of service.

    As an aside, it's wrecker not wreaker.
  9. Yep, its mostly older guys who go on about knowledge pay. I was general service for 8 years before I went submarines. I have always thought submarine pay should be for the conditions onboard and the nuclear pay for the knowledge/extra responsibility.
    Personally I don't agree with the whole retention argument, although I'm well aware I will be going to sea for £650 less than usual and theres nothing I can do about it. Life in a blue one, if you don't like it put your notice in etc...
  10. 100% Bollox. It used to be for us Specialy Selected Pay (Diving)(SSP(D)). You were paid for your core set of skills, the conditions ie effing cold for long hours, and for dealing with UXO etc. Diving pay went up dramatically in the 80's due to the mass exodus of lads leaving to go sat diving. This was used an incentive to stay but was never used as retention. In 2002 when the next generation of lads started to leave for the North sea, SSP(D) suddenly became "retention" pay. In 2004 the first lad to leave suddenly found himself losing 50% of his pay. As was pointed out by D10 in April you will lose ALL of your specialist pay.

    I am in the process of leaving and have "manned up" and haven taken the hit. Luckily I have timed it so I won't get affected by the 100% hit. By then I will be on footballers wages (well maybe NPower league 2) so have made contigencies.

    There are a hell of a lot of SR divers leaving this year and the question has been raised, that why if your going to take ALL of my diving pay of me should I either dive or more importantly supervise diving operations? Diving is diving, but supervising is a different kettle of fish. There were in very recent times to SR divers (the other two promient divers that post on here will vouch for this) that ended up on industrial manslaughter charges. One left the UK. One ended up in the dock sweating on his very own liberty by looking at a 15 stretch. He was, thank fully, acquited when the SOD at the time spoke out at Winchester Crown Court. However it did result in him leaving the service he loved as he was advised to be a civillian in the dock (long story).

    My over riding point is why should a mixed gas supervisor risk his liberty when there is every chance that he could be the third man in the dock fighting for his very own freedom?? For me they had by the S&C's as I was still getting paid half, but the lads losing the lot????

    As I said I am not overly bothered, needed to go one day and knew (before things changed with the last review) that I would only be losing half and made plans. However I will be interested to see what the mob does with its first rebellious SR diver that hands his log in with his notice. Oh and before you ask they can neither force you to dive or supervise.

    As NS said it's a lovely way of the mob repaying (no pun) you after a full and long service!

    Never a truer word written by someone who doesn't get any form of SSP! Thank **** I am going to be working with like minded divers and not any more shallow, jealous types that can't resist having a dig when it suits.

    PS This is not an out lying post that should turn into a Lever-MLP debate!
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  11. I thought you were on the Diving SRs payspine, which didn't get cut on leaving?

    As for the rest of it, meh. Pick your branch, take your chance. You get paid significantly more whilst you're doing it, welcome to life like the rest of the Fleet for your last 12 months :D
  12. Well if you read it I still get paid more than you as I still get half of £1250. Anyway make 2 1/2 that's what you all strive for I will be on mahoosive pay come April.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012

  13. Yes but it did turn into a specialist pay debate.
  14. It wasn't amied at you princess. You're nemesis No2. It was aimed at No1!! Anyway it was just a piss take!
  15. witsend

    witsend War Hero Book Reviewer

    And don't mention that extra pay, which is taxed, doesn't show up on your pension.
  16. If pay was the only thing to consider in the RN, many of us would not be here. I am paid well enough, with others getting more, others getting less.

    It is the intangibles - good mess mates (ashore as well as at sea ;) ), Commanding, Leading and Managing Sailors, going to places most of the public have never been, working hard and producing results - that keep me in the RN. Frog, good luck for the job, enjoy the money, but frankly you can keep it, I don't want it.
  17. Yes I do get paid significantly more for doing it, the main point of the thread is I'm getting significantly less for doing the same job. 4 of the last 12 months of my career will be spent at sea on a submarine and i will not be getting paid submarine/nuclear pay. No problem losing the pay if I'm not doing the job but I will be.
  18. Don't leave then. You've obviously done a cost/benefit analysis and decided it's worth it.
  19. You've seen the other thread-you're No3 now! Even Alfred the Notso is moved down one!
  20. Bagsy being your "Arch Nemesis"....I just nicked next doors cat and bleached the twat white....I reckon I'll make a good baddie.

    Anyways...get your homework you still go to an autopsy on the course?
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