Not the RAF (Regiment's ) finest hour

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Phd8511, May 9, 2014.

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  1. BBC News - Pictures appear to show RAF man posing with dead Taliban fighter

    The graphic pictures were taken in the aftermath of an attack by insurgents on Camp Bastion, the main British base in Afghanistan, in 2012.The images first appeared on website Live Leak. The Ministry of Defence said they came to its attention last month and military police were investigating.Two RAF Regiment members have already been withdrawn from frontline duties.
  2. I think this is one of the few occasions I actually feel sorry for the Regiment.

    This activity has been going on since we started throwing stones at folk. I dare say if the Romans had had cameras at Jesus' crucifixion they would have posed next to him on the cross.

    Journo's!!!! Quite alright for them to pose, sorry!! report the news next to corpses. But that is for our information.

    Bloody hypocrites.
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  3. And the Journo's wouldn't have caught on to it had it not been for Live Leak.
  4. Absolutely moronic.

    When are people going to realise that cameras in theatre are a spectacularly bad idea?
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  5. That depends. Sometimes its for feedback on operations. Other times it's the soldier's personal cams--though not really possible for most operations.
  6. Posing with stiffs for "that phot" is always going to bite you in the arse these days, you may have got away with it during the Korean War and WW2 (and they did) but times have moved on.
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  7. And the Falklands
  8. Wow.

    Thanks for the education. Personal cameras are frankly idiotic. Posing for pictures in footage or snaps is diving over the ledge of astonishingly idiotic things to do.
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  9. One of the few times I feel I have to disagree with you.
    The actions of a few do not in my mind justify the idea of not recording the living history we are going through.
  10. Some nice action shots which look lovely on Panorama can't smooth over the damage done by photos and videos of serious errors of judgement.

    By all means film it, but then all that footage should then go through a screening process before it leaves theatre.

    Controlled filming is a good thing. Go pros for the purpose of showing the lads is spectacularly bad.
  11. We shall agree to disagree.
    l have photos of both my grandads in Suez and I'm glad I have them.
  12. Any excuse these days for the media to fire up the outrage bus.Stupid and crass,yes.But a war crime,I think not.What I found far more disturbing and unsuitable for public voyeurism were the images of the abduction and murder of Cpls David Howes and Derek Wood. Published by...Er news media organisations.
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  13. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I agree war and its horrors should be recorded. I don't agree with smiling, thumbs-up poses with dead people.

    The RAF Regiment are unique in the UK Armed Forces in that they have two tier battle honours to recognise the fact the battle more often comes to them in the group force protection role, rather than taking the battle to the enemy. Obviously you don't base your aircraft, where possible, in an unnecessarily vulnerable situation - much the same with aircraft carriers. RAF Regiment -  Battle Honours

    It is relatively rare therefore, other than when operating as part of SFSG, that the RAF Regiment experience close quarters combat photographic record opportunities when acting in this role.
  14. Could it be that the guy is confirming that the man is actually dead?

    It is amazing how these pictures surface well after the event and the journos get in a feeding frenzy.

    So, in future members of the press, no more pictures or videos that show blood, dead bodies laying in the street, explosions, fires, derailments, crashes or any thing else that might upset me.
  15. I can only reiterate some of my previous comments on such issues, if it was me and someone had been having a pop at me and doing his best to put me in the position the insurgent was in I think I would have probably have made the same gesture. But photos probably not, however, when its clipper factor 50 and the shit is incoming the adrenalin rush afterwards makes you do some rather stupid things - then of course the Top Brass have to be seen to do something before the tree huggers hijack the moral high ground bus.
  16. Some may find the photograph to be not in the best possible taste but what could he be charged with other than bringing the RAF Regiment into disrepute?
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  17. Is it a trend to care more about an Armed Forces image nowadays as opposed to in the past?
  18. Are you allowed to take photos with bodies in the Geneva convention I'm almost certain you can't with POWs.
  19. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator


    No it isn't. Feeding frenzy?

    The issue is the bone-headed pose I suspect, not the graphic content.
  20. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    I agree with Monty on this in that, just like going on a stag night to a strip club, taking a ****ing method of recording what happens is a spectacularly huge risk consideration. Especially these days when media is passed around like gonorrhoea.

    To quanitify and qualify that, I give you this:

    The media don't truly love the armed forces like I think everyone thinks they do. For the moment forget the press' attitude toward H4H and the Millies and that showbiz crap. That sells print, and little else. Face it - it seems that most journalistic havens are stuffed with university-bred cretins who have been raised on the notion that the armed forces are filled with moronic drop outs led by overprivelidged poshoes. In fact, the two extremes of society they despise with an almost pleasurable fervour and those they believe are way, way below their judgement and licence. They also skip the detail that were it not for obedience and discipline ... and this is the rod of iron that underwrites the nation's foreign policy instrument (i.e. soldiers, sailors and airmen) the dirty work on this ball of shit would not get done. The Taliban would still be terrorising and butchering, Saddam would still be bullying his way across the Middle East and prodding Israel into action. They also skip the key facts that it was good old Labour's Tony Blair and his cohort of filthy capitalists who lied and colluded with the archdeacon of Globalisation and Capitalist Satanism Dubyabush to enable our new Crusade to roll its wheels eastward anyway. How say journalists then when they learn of many campaigns by senior military officers to quell the political fever to smash those filthy towelheads based upon the knowledge that despite valiant hearts beating in the chests of our colleagues, history has told us never to take on the desert people in their own lands (Nazis though, yeah, we can do them) and if you want to win against a race of people equipped to fight a dirty war of attrition, don't pretend that you are doing the cause any justice by giving your troops shit kit that compounds their efforts and gets them killed doing so.

    There is also the human factor that journalists miss, which by no means offers an excuse for the RAFs daft actions, but it offers reason. You won't hear war correspondents - Jeremy Bowen, Kate Adie, John Simpson et al, carping on about soldiers etc being baby killers and being inhumane in their duty. That's because they have seen how dehumanising war can be up at the shitty end of it all ... not just for the protagonists, but for everyone, civilians alike. Its a ****ing shitty job, and some poor bastard(s) have to do it, regardless of their inner feelings and fears. I haven't yet met one person who has come back from the sandpit who has said it was in any way enjoyable, or a good draft/posting and they can't wait to get back out therem, unless they are possibly mad ... or as part of a well-paid and well-equipped close protection team. Who can blame them, especially when if they cause one minor discretion they are up on a war crimes rap and gits like Amnesty International are chipping in with their ten pennorth, like they are experts in this all of a sudden, and have ever been in fear for their lives and had to do something pretty damned radical to change the situation.

    For them, and for any journos reading this, two things:

    1. Don't forget, the nastiness of warfare and its effects don't happen on our doorstep much. The last time it did it killed 52 and injured 700 in our nation's capital, and that didn't involve sustained attacks by highly trained militia. When it did happen, the press and tv shat itself white with condemnations of how those pesky little clean skinned fundamentalists could have pulled off such a wheeze, and thereafter there was widespread unity of how such an act was a disgrace to humankind, complete with great HD shots of the BMA building in Tavistock Square with human remains splattered all over it. How the relatives of the passengers must have loved that.

    2. If you want some kind of balance as to how certain religious-based militia mete out their version of justice and fairness in and out of warfare, I suggest you visit The Young News Channel online. There, you will find uncensored footage of beheadings, summary executions, jihadi raids (where no prisoners are taken) and all sorts of other eye-popping (and frankly horrific) illustrations that put one or two RAF Rgt soldiers, (fresh from almost being another coffin on an another BZN-bound aircraft) posing next to a dead insurgent post-contact into clear context. Sure, the Geneva Convention says a lot, but it doesn't offer high ground to any morality when the shit starts flying. I am pretty sure that were our streets filled with the hotness of war and we were all involved in a sour, wallowing, debilitating battle against people we don't like, the press would have a bumper six page pull out on those we'd slotted in the name o'democracy.

    Last edited: May 10, 2014
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