Non-Fancy Fire support

Discussion in 'The Fleet' started by Extras, Dec 26, 2008.

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  1. Has the RN moved away from Big guns / medium guns?

    I understand that most ships have a 4.5 inch gun on them but is that enough? I had a chat with one of you dirty wet jobs about this topic before and we both came to the conclusion that it would be a good idea.

    TLAM, Paveway and other Laser-guided munitions are fantastic but sometimes you need to suppress the enemy instead of accurately dropping £4k of ordnance withing 1m. Sometimes you don't know where the enemy is within 1m so it's not always necessary.

    Would a small (think pocket battle ship) but modern type ship be a good idea? Instead of one 4.5 inch gun, why not have a few 155mm AS90 turrets on there? The 52 Cal barrel can fire a selection of large rounds out to 30km. In places like Basra or other coastal regions, '3 rounds fire for effect' would do just as much damage as your paveway or TLAM. However, it would cost a lot less, and once the shot is out you can move onto your next task.

    I'm not advocating bringing back Vanguard (but maybe replacing the turrets on Belfast....) but this could be an interesting addition to our arsenal. All modern Armies use Artillery for indirect fire support and I'm sure the booties would love to park HMS Ruin Your Fucking Day off shore as they go in.

    What do you think?
     
  2. There is (or at least was until July when I last heard anything definite) a research project to prove a 155mm gun which would be on a modified 4.5" mounting. If that succeeds then eventually there might be enough money for a Surface Fleet fit - what remains of it!
     
  3. Always thought that NGS missions carried out with the current systems were pretty effective. Saw a shoot by the Nottingham in the Falklands mid 80's and I wouldn't have fancied being on the end of a bricking by the 4.5. Calibre was pretty much made up by rate of fire and coverage, might need and old and bold gunner to back me up but I seem to remember a round every 1.5 seconds accurately delivered

    I'm sure this has been done on here before, with a link to some MOD pages about the 155mm upgrade.
     
  4. Rate of fire is 23-25 rounds per minute so every 1.5 seconds is about right.
    Haven't sat on the receiving end, only the gunbay side, but wouldn't fancy receiving that delivery.

    Have heard stories from Telic 03 of rounds being stepped in 50 metre steps towards troops in a building, some one chatting to the Iraqi troops between rounds givingt them a heads up.

    It would seem the psychogical effect was enough to persuade them to come out.

    TATS
     
  5. NGS is, (or was when I left), the primary role for 4.5" Mk8, with surface as secondary role.

    It used to have an AA capability but despite being very effective against towed targets wasn't considered to be suitable against modern aircraft.

    23 to 25 rounds per minute is correct but that equates to about one bang every 2.5 seconds. It could be made to cycle slightly faster but there would be little point as the recovery rate means that the system would not settle in time for accuracy of subsequent shots.

    I believe BAE were looking into a 155mm Naval Gun Mounting based on the AS90. They may still be at it but I don't know. Basically, for NGS bigger is better.
     
  6. 23 to 25 rounds per minute is correct but that equates to about one bang every 2.5 seconds

    Apologies for the maffmatics!! I'm dividing everything by Smirnoff atm.

    TATS
     
  7. That's OK TATS, none of my gunbay crew could count either ^~
     
  8. I was COGB, i found shouting counting worked!! lolol
     
  9. How much will a round for a 155mm gun weigh??? Would it be a 1 piece round or a return to a seperate charge???

    Anybody know???
     
  10. The latter!! Shell and seperate charge.
     
  11. Will that be back to breech loading then?? Glad you know what's going on noemis
     
  12. As opposed to the muzzle loaded Mk8?

    Put that Smirnoff down! :drunken:

    AS90 can fire a 3 round burst in 10 seconds and if the shell is twice as heavy as a Mk8 (from the link) that would be about 110lbs.
    Seperate ammo I guess but maybe the Naval variant would have fixed ammo. Would be hell of a size though and would compromise the Howitzer role.
     
  13. Cheers for sticking with me Ballistic!!!! BZ You see what i'm saying though!!

    Captain Eric Smirnoff and Lt Jack Daniels, two fine naval ratings.

    Cheers dudes

    TATS
     
  14. Yeah, I know what you mean.

    Personally I'm doing a cross-pol with the South Africans and I'm currently being entertained by Admiral Cabernet Sauvignon Merlot.
     
  15. Well check you out moving in high circles!!! Are you just making up numbers at the cock and arse??

    The flight deck must be freezing, even with the awning up!!

    At least it's free

    TATS
     
  16. The technology for using a seperate charge and projectile is already available, and for a large calibre as this rates of fire could be pretty good.

    With Big And Expensive doing the work, it'll probably be late and massively over budget. What about using the same calibre as most other navies and having one of these on the T45s?

    Oto Melara 127/64 LW

    If it's good enough for the Germans...

    F125 Frigate
     
  17. Noemis wrote:If it's good enough for the Germans...

    F125 Frigate

    This was the AWD's the RAN wanted not the Spanish ones the GOV bought us.
     
  18. The concept of the 155mm gun being fitted to ships has been around since the 70's. (stacks of progress then!) Present ships would need major reinforcment and a complete magazine re-design in order to accomodate the weapon and it's ammunition, and I don't see that really happening.
     
  19. I was under the impression that the only reason this was being discussed as a possibility was that it would help simplify logistic operations for joint forces theatres? If this is the case then surely the exact same ammo used for the AS90 would be required?

    I haven't heard anything concrete about whether this would even be possible mind you.
     

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