NON CHANGE OF UY/SUY SERVICE NUMBERS ON ENTRY TO BRNC

[FunDiver]

I attended and SUY acquaint at BRNC Dartmouth yesterday and was informed that due to JPA, that as of Jan 02 2007, on entry to BRNC the UY/SUY service numbers will not change from a 'D' number to a 'C0' number. :sad:

I was worried by this due to a couple of reasons; :???:

1. Confusion by other parties when giving details over the phone (bookings etc), :roll:
2. Possible discrimination when appointments are sought, :evil:
3. Endless explanations starting with " I don't care what service number I have, I AM AN OFFICER!" :shock:

Could anyone explain why,
1, on JPA the service number cannot be changed and
2, is someone doing something about this?

I wish that they would bring back Buzz Busters so that this can be sent out for wider viewing.... :evil:

Sensible suggestions please :roll:

 

[Maxi_77]

It sounds a bit like when they introduced computerised pay many moons ago and officers had to have numbers for the first time, only because no one had bothered to set the system up to work without numbers. I suspect the real answer is the system was not set up to allow numbers to be changed and now they dont have the cash to change it.

The data base though should have your changed staus in it any way so I doubt in the end it will make much difference

 

[KLNA-Cessna-Jockey]

Probably means more work for a civvy in having to alter your details on a computer.

heaven forbid the civvies should have more work to do !

 

[Lamri]

ASAIK JPA is civilian software bought "off the shelf" with tweaks.
Therefore it cannot introduce employee numbers starting with P/CO/D etc etc which is why all new numbers are just that, numbers.
All numbers will run concurrently too, so you could end up with a number in between two ratings of the same intake as you in whatever service.

 

[slim]

Seems to me that the main reason for your objection is pride!
Lets face it your ID card will show your Rank. Your uniform will be just a bit of a giveaway and when making bookings Rates/Ranks would have been quoted so no explanation should be necessary.

The only other reason that I can think of is that they have retained the old service numbers because it took junior officers too long to learn their new number.

 

[FunDiver]

Seems to me that the main reason for your objection is pride!
Lets face it your ID card will show your Rank. Your uniform will be just a bit of a giveaway and when making bookings Rates/Ranks would have been quoted so no explanation should be necessary.

The only other reason that I can think of is that they have retained the old service numbers because it took junior officers too long to learn their new number.

Yeah cheers Slim. You are quite right about pride. I will have as much pride as the next man on my course, that I made it to BRNC, which is to be expected (i hope) and not ridiculed by other members of the forces (do you have green eyes?). :roll:

No shit my uniform would be a give away!! Also, I'm sure that Junior Officers took/take just as long as the average rating to learn their new number. I am damn sure that I have the intelligence to learn a new number!

What a prat!

 

[slim]

Seems to me that the main reason for your objection is pride!
Lets face it your ID card will show your Rank. Your uniform will be just a bit of a giveaway and when making bookings Rates/Ranks would have been quoted so no explanation should be necessary.

The only other reason that I can think of is that they have retained the old service numbers because it took junior officers too long to learn their new number.

Yeah cheers Slim. You are quite right about pride. I will have as much pride as the next man on my course, that I made it to BRNC, which is to be expected (i hope) and not ridiculed by other members of the forces (do you have green eyes?). :roll:

No shit my uniform would be a give away!! Also, I'm sure that Junior Officers took/take just as long as the average rating to learn their new number. I am damn sure that I have the intelligence to learn a new number!

What a prat!

I see that we have a complete sense of humour failure. Perhaps I used the word pride incorrectly.
I'm now fairly certain that in your case it is arrogance.

 

[TattooDog]

I attended and SUY acquaint at BRNC Dartmouth yesterday and was informed that due to JPA, that as of Jan 02 2007, on entry to BRNC the UY/SUY service numbers will not change from a 'D' number to a 'C0' number. :sad:

Sensible suggestions please :roll:

When they said your number will not change to a C number, did they mean:

a. You will retain your D number or
b. You will be allocated a new JPA 3XXXXXX number?

I would have thought you would get a new JPA number as you are technically a "new entrant", according to JPA, and will be issued a new number.

JPA is not configured to give out C, D, W, V, P and N numbers since (as Lamri pointed out) it is really a civvi system, and civvies do not distinguish between different types of employee.

 

[FunDiver]

Seems to me that the main reason for your objection is pride!
Lets face it your ID card will show your Rank. Your uniform will be just a bit of a giveaway and when making bookings Rates/Ranks would have been quoted so no explanation should be necessary.

The only other reason that I can think of is that they have retained the old service numbers because it took junior officers too long to learn their new number.

Yeah cheers Slim. You are quite right about pride. I will have as much pride as the next man on my course, that I made it to BRNC, which is to be expected (i hope) and not ridiculed by other members of the forces (do you have green eyes?). :roll:

No, not a sense of humour failure, but I did ask for sensible suggestions. The fact that numbers are not changing is not only a dissapointment to me but to the other member of my future course, the course after that and the course that started on the 2nd Jan 07. We are trying to find out if an how to get it changed, mainly due to the fact that when we are appointed to jobs in the future there could be an element of discrimination.

Thanks,

No shit my uniform would be a give away!! Also, I'm sure that Junior Officers took/take just as long as the average rating to learn their new number. I am damn sure that I have the intelligence to learn a new number!

What a prat!

I see that we have a complete sense of humour failure. Perhaps I used the word pride incorrectly.
I'm now fairly certain that in your case it is arrogance.

 

[FunDiver]

I attended and SUY acquaint at BRNC Dartmouth yesterday and was informed that due to JPA, that as of Jan 02 2007, on entry to BRNC the UY/SUY service numbers will not change from a 'D' number to a 'C0' number. :sad:

Sensible suggestions please :roll:

When they said your number will not change to a C number, did they mean:

a. You will retain your D number or
b. You will be allocated a new JPA 3XXXXXX number?

I would have thought you would get a new JPA number as you are technically a "new entrant", according to JPA, and will be issued a new number.

JPA is not configured to give out C, D, W, V, P and N numbers since (as Lamri pointed out) it is really a civvi system, and civvies do not distinguish between different types of employee.

Cheers Tattoo-Dog,

The UY/SUYs will retain their D numbers apparently, but as then new entry of SUYs, on the 2nd Jan, have not been paid yet they are unsure what their number will be let alone if they will be paid. All they have been told is that they will retain their 'D' number.

 

[FunDiver]

No, not a sense of humour failure, but I did ask for sensible suggestions.

The fact that numbers are not changing is not only a dissapointment to me but to the other member of my future course, the course after that and the course that started on the 2nd Jan 07.
We are trying to find out if an how to get it changed, mainly due to the fact that when we are appointed to jobs in the future there could be an element of discrimination.

 

[TattooDog]

The UY/SUYs will retain their D numbers apparently, but as then new entry of SUYs, on the 2nd Jan, have not been paid yet they are unsure what their number will be let alone if they will be paid. All they have been told is that they will retain their 'D' number.

WTF??? Obviously someone did not consider this when JPA was "tweaked"!!

This seems to be more than just a case of pride - I think it'll have serious practical issues (What about rates of pay, appointing, Schemes of Complement, kit record books/slops etc??). Mind you, I think JPA will throw up a few more issues - I'm seeing some at work now!

Can't think what will happen when you try to book accommodation.

Sorry to hear you have become the "Guinea Pigs" for this. Possibly one to raise with 2SL PLT (or whatever they're called this month).

 

[slim]

I don't know how long you have served in the RN but why do you think that you will be discriminated against because of your official number? It could be advantageous as your appointer may decide that your lower deck experience will give you advantages over direct entry officers.
However your appointer will be in possession of your career history with or without a number change.
During my time in the service I found that about 90% of officers were good, however there were about 10% who were what Jack would describe as arrogant pigs

 

[FunDiver]

I don't know how long you have served in the RN but why do you think that you will be discriminated against because of your official number? It could be advantageous as your appointer may decide that your lower deck experience will give you advantages over direct entry officers.
However your appointer will be in possession of your career history with or without a number change.
During my time in the service I found that about 90% of officers were good, however there were about 10% who were what Jack would describe as arrogant pigs

I have served 17.5 years man and boy. Good point about the career history.

We were discussing this possibility and feel that there could be jobs out there in the fleet that an appointer would rather give to a UY/SUY over an Officer that joined as a grad/undergrad. I understand that this could be seen as a good thing, as they have recognised our experience but it could also go the other way, with unwanted jobs given to us, as we have the experience and the ingrained 'get on with it' attitude.

When we mentioned the retention of 'D' numbers to the BRNC CDRE (CDRE Harris) he was shocked, that this was the case.

 

[slim]

Best of luck with your promotion Fundiver. I am sure that with 17+ years service you will have a lot to offer the officer corp. However from experiences of my mates who became SD officers in the 70s and 80s they always seemed to get what I would refer to as gash Jobs. Some instances were MTO, Security officer etc. However these were from the air mechanic branches i.e. POAF POREL etc. Other mates who were artificers or mechanicians and became AEOs did considerably better. I did not notice any difference in their appointments to the graduate and direst entry AEOs.
In fact a guy named Dick Gooden***h who was the youngest CAA in the navy at the time took a commission and within an extremely short time was promoted to commander.
I don't think your service number wll,have any bearing on your appointments, your service histort almost certainly will.

 

[the_grim_reaper]

The whole issue of service numbers was widely briefed during JPA presentations given last year, including at BRNC.

As far as JPA is concerned you are a serving member of the armed forces, by accepting a commission and joining the officer corp you are merely being assigned, you already have a service number (employee number) therefore a new one is not required.

If you were to be given a new service number your current JPA record would have to be terminated a new record created and you would be allocated a JPA number starting with a 3xxxxxx. Owing to the rules specific to re-hires (as this is what category you would fall under if you're rating JPA record was terminated) your pay would suffer as there are specific rules about re-employment within one month of leaving the service.

This has nothing to do with lazy civvies merely the application of COTS package that was signed up to by all three services several years ago.

There will be no issue with determining your status as an officer, the system will have you on the OF Nato Rank structure as opposed the OR Structure that you are currently on. Your appointer will know exactly who you are and your Rank will appear on assignment orders.

As an additional point all New Entrant Officers are given a JPA number which starts with a 3 and all New Entrant Ratings at Raleigh are given a JPA number that starts with a 3. There is no distinction.

The argument could go on, with the new JPA numbers you cannot tell the difference between male, female, nurse or marine, whilst traditionally our service numbers have readily identified our status and gender this has now gone, it is now merely a unique identifier in a commercial system.

Ship's raised the issue of service numbers when briefed last year, fearing that would not be able to identify female new joiners for accoom purposes.

You should be proud of your entry into Dartmouth, I flunked my board a couple of years ago, however, you should not worry that just because you have a D number you will be discriminated against in anyway.

 

[dunkers]

How will the problem of not being able to identify males and females (eg for booking accommodation) be worked around?

If service numbers do not indicate gender and the title "Wren" (e.g. as in "PO Wren") is no longer used, how will it be done?

 

[stumpy]

How will the problem of not being able to identify males and females (eg for booking accommodation) be worked around?

If service numbers do not indicate gender and the title "Wren" (e.g. as in "PO Wren") is no longer used, how will it be done?

Easy, go Dutch and have mixed messes....

 

[the_grim_reaper]

The assignment order contains the full name, generally this can identify sex.

Also JPA records your gender - it just cannot be determined from the JPA employee number,

 

[TheCommunicator]

How will the problem of not being able to identify males and females (eg for booking accommodation) be worked around?

Not really relevant shoreside now as SLAM accomodation is unisex. As for onboard well it will just need to be noticed from a different part of the assignment notice (ie M/F as opposed to C V D W P Y etc)